RIP Pete Vinton

[Norm]

Thanks much Norm for a beautifully written and very well stated view. I know we can all feel your loss in the sincerety of your words and we as pilots, in my opinion, have a duty to each other to learn from these tragedies. Our hearts go out to all for their loss. Warm Regards Gary

Yes, we do need to talk frankly about the details of why some of our *most talented and experienced* aviators are no longer flying with us. Why did they make the mistakes that cost them their lives and sometimes the lives of innocent passengers? Does their experience make them too comfortable ... or do they feel sort of invincible? ... ?

Thanks, Gary.

[§kyye]

Well John,

Yes I could be more explicit on many points - but I did not come here to discuss my resume. If you are a CFI with ATP, yet no airline experience, perhaps YOU are the one the airlines didn't work out for.

As for my "weak" argument, as you put it, you may wish to pick up a copy of the current issue of Flying Magazine - since that seems to be the authoritative publication for you. The neighbors were among those interviewed and accused Pete of being reckless, among other things, on the days leading up to the fatal crash. This has been refuted by experienced professionals - an aerobatics pilot and airline pilot who flew with him that day.

If you are truly interested in aviation safety, as you put it, then you will not hesitate to consider ALL facts.

§kyye said,

"...unless you are an airline pilot yourself, you cannot appreciate or understand fully."

You could be more explicit. Perhaps the airlines haven't worked out for you.

"I have my own theories on this accident, based on things unknown publicly about both the aircraft in question and about this particular situation, but I will not elaborate..."

Weak

"As for the surrounding neighbors, they were an uninformed group of intolerant people..."

There is no indication neighbors played any role in the accident, or were credible witnesses relied upon in the investigation.

"You are obviously not very well versed in these very typical community "concerns" either - this is a typical problem, that non-aviation people are often ignorant of aviation issues and safety on the whole."

ATP, multiple type ratings, four aircraft categories, CFI... interested in aviation safety.

[Norm]

... pick up a copy of the current issue of Flying Magazine ...

FLYING, Aug 2012, "Aftermath", by Peter Garrison, pg 43:

" ... Several friends and associates of the pilot [Pete Vinton] have petitioned the NTSB to amend the report. In particular, Dagmar Kress, a former member of the German national aerobatic team, and Brian DeVandry, a retired United Airlines 747 captain, state that they were in the airplane with Vinton during the flights the day before, that no departure stalls took place, that no maneuvers were performed at inappropriate altitudes, and that there was nothing reckless about the pilot's flying then or, to their knowledge, at any other time.

"If the NTSB had interviewed these witnesses, the general impressions created by its report would have been different."


It will be interesting to read the final report if the NTSB decides to amend it.

Norm

[Californiacubs]

Eyewitness reports are notoriously inaccurate. So eyewitness accounts of low level 'stalls' performed by Pete the day before the accident should be viewed with skepticism. The fact that an eyewitness is an IAC judge does not mean that his opinion is less suspect. To the contrary, that fact alone supports the conclusion that his opinion is largely uninformed. An IAC judge who may be accustomed to flying and observing high performance aerobatic aircraft has no frame of reference when it comes to observing and evaluating flight of a CubCrafters Carbon Cub.

[John Doe]

"Eyewitness reports are notoriously inaccurate."

This is true and well-known, but what you have written afterward is irrelevant.

The aviation community mourns the loss of a close friend with predictable response. No doubt photos, videos and interviews will guide the NTSB to an accurate 'probable cause' for this sad accident.

[John Doe]

On September 5, 2013, about 1954 Alaska daylight time, a Cessna 170B airplane, N170BN, sustained substantial damage following a loss of control and a subsequent impact with tundra-covered terrain, about 74 miles northwest of Glennallen, Alaska. The airplane was being operated by the pilot as a visual flight rules (VFR) personal flight under the provisions of Title 14, CFR Part 91, when the accident occurred. The private pilot, the sole occupant, was fatally injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed. The flight departed from a remote mountain ridge near the accident site.

According to a member of the pilot’s hunting party, the pilot had shot and killed a moose earlier in the day in an area of tall brush and tundra-covered terrain, but he failed to mark its location before hiking away from the site. Unable to locate the dead moose amongst the tall brush, he hiked back to the airplane that was parked atop a mountain ridgeline, and then he departed to do an aerial search for the moose kill site.

According to a witness, after the airplane departed from the mountain ridgeline he watched the airplane do a series of low altitude maneuvers as the pilot began his search. The witness said that he observed the airplane fly by his location at approximately 80 to 100 feet above the ground, traveling at an estimated 45 mph. He said that after it passed by it then began a left turn, and then the nose of the airplane pitched down abruptly and it began to spin. The airplane subsequently descended vertically, nose first, and it collided with the tundra and brush-covered terrain.

Continuous poor weather conditions in the area prevented the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigator-in-charge (IIC), and a representative from Cessna Aircraft Company from reaching the accident site until the afternoon of September 8. The airplane impacted in a near vertical attitude in an area of brush and tundra covered terrain, at an elevation of approximately 3,750 feet mean sea level. All the primary flight control surfaces were identified at the accident site, and flight control continuity was verified from all of the primary flight control surfaces to the cockpit. A detailed wreckage examination is pending following recovery of the airplane.

The closest weather reporting facility is Eureka Lodge, approximately 38 miles southeast of the accident site. At 1956, an aviation routine weather report (METAR) at Eureka Lodge, Alaska, reported wind 230 degrees at 8 knots, visibility, 10 statute miles, clouds and sky condition, clear; 46 degrees F; dew point 35 degrees F; altimeter, 29.96 inHG.

[Norm]

Too low, too slow ... that's similar to the way my son died in SW Alaska.

These low and slow stall/spin accidents keep happening with frightening regularity.

[Norm]

FLYING, Aug 2012, "Aftermath", by Peter Garrison, pg 43:

" ... Several friends and associates of the pilot [Pete Vinton] have petitioned the NTSB to amend the report. In particular, Dagmar Kress, a former member of the German national aerobatic team, and Brian DeVandry, a retired United Airlines 747 captain, state that they were in the airplane with Vinton during the flights the day before, that no departure stalls took place, that no maneuvers were performed at inappropriate altitudes, and that there was nothing reckless about the pilot's flying then or, to their knowledge, at any other time.

"If the NTSB had interviewed these witnesses, the general impressions created by its report would have been different."


It will be interesting to read the final report if the NTSB decides to amend it.

Norm

It's now been 2.5 years since this tragic accident and it appears that the NTSB has decided not to amend the original accident summary and to let stand their original assessment:

"The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:
The pilot’s excessive and unsafe maneuvering during gusty wind conditions, which resulted in an inadvertent stall-spin."

Fly safely, everyone.

RIP Pete.

[John Doe]

Kress and DeVandry are probably not on the NTSB list of witnesses anymore and can relax. As you wrote, may
Vinton rest in peace... and may others find a way to go on, especially the family of Vinton's unwitting passenger.