Sport Cub/Carbon Cub VS Super Cub 3x3 gear differences

[couleeone]

Sometimes I hate to admit my Scars, especially my brush scrapping wing tip ones! Who said anything about bad decisions? Again comes from a mediocre pilot pushing the edge to become a better pilot! If I never got a scar I would never know the edge! ( and I don't mean over the edge high risk chances!!)

Love to have the 3X3 with bigger tires than 850s but would have to go ELSA and would in a heartbeat but I would lose the right to instruct in it. Dual brings us too many sales leads!

Scars are all fixed like new and after over 700 hours on her she shines and people still think 7AK is braaaand new! She is well taken care of! And I am still learning the edge!

Geo

[Pete D]

LOL. When I used to snowboard a lot we used to say "your not learning anything if your not crashing!" :-)

[RanRan]

Sometimes I hate to admit my Scars, especially my brush scrapping wing tip ones! Who said anything about bad decisions? Again comes from a mediocre pilot pushing the edge to become a better pilot! If I never got a scar I would never know the edge! ( and I don't mean over the edge high risk chances!!)

Love to have the 3X3 with bigger tires than 850s but would have to go ELSA and would in a heartbeat but I would lose the right to instruct in it. Dual brings us too many sales leads!

Scars are all fixed like new and after over 700 hours on her she shines and people still think 7AK is braaaand new! She is well taken care of!

Geo

'And I am still learning the edge!'

Exactly. And when you're comfortable with that edge, you move on to the next And are a better pilot for it. When I was a kid I was in the Civil Air Patrol - there was soooo much concern for safety that, frankly, they took all the fun out it. They meant well, but I wanted to be like Captain Yeager - you know, trimming his girl-friend's trees with the wings of his fighter plane - and then explaining the dent. Everyone has their envelop. What IS safe to one, looks absolutely crazy to another.

These are bush planes. You can drive them like a wimp, but what's the point in doing that? Get out there. Press it!

[Norm]

My son, Shaun Lunt, www.shaunlunt.typepad.com was killed in his Super Cub in Alaska in June 2008 while flying w Loni Habersetzer. Loni, as most of us know, is famous in bush flying circles for his DVDs of extreme bush flying techniques. Loni and Shaun were good friends and flying buddies. Shaun was an “experienced” pilot (the total logged hours in the NTSB report is way under his actual. I later found his logbook but by then the investigator didn’t really want it). As a former CFII, I have flown w a lot of pilots and Shaun’s skills and innate abilities were probably the very best I had ever seen. But one thing for sure, when Loni and Shaun went flying in their Cubs they didn't fly anything like the Civil Air Patrol.

In case anyone isn't familiar with his well publicized accident, I'll very briefly re-cap. Shaun and Loni were "beach combing" at 75' to 100' AGL w strong but smooth onshore winds. My son was very experienced Cub pilot and could put his Cub into some incredible places. But, circling an object on the beach he stalled and hit the sand in the shallow water headfirst. He died instantly ... we hope. The flames burned for 2 hours due to the extra fuel he and Loni were carrying for their trip.

Why was he flying and circling at 75' to 100' AGL? Well, because "that's what we do up here", said one well known AK bush pilot that I talked to after the accident.

“Mystery Flights” is an article by Margaret Lamb and published in the AOPA Pilot Magazine in the Feb 2010 issue. In this excellent piece of investigation and analysis she probes into the reasons why 3 of the most experienced and well known pilots died in small plane crashes in the span of about 3 1/2 years.

** Sparky Imenson, author of “Mountain Flying Bible”, still considered the best publications on the subject, was killed on March 17, 2009, while flying in a manner that he said should never be done. Best speculation was that he was flying very low to the ground and fast but hit an unexpected downdraft.

** Steve Fossett, famed pilot of numerous aviation records, crashed near Yosemite in the Sierras on Sep 3, 2007. His accident was a misjudgment of high altitude performance of a borrowed 180 HP Super Decathlon at nearly 13,000’ altitude, most likely complicated with downdrafts.

** Fletcher Anderson, mountain flying guru and author of “Flying the Mountains”, was killed on Nov 18, 2005, and an eyewitness reported seeing him fly by past her just 7 miles from the accident site and reported that he was flying extremely low in a canyon well below the road where she was driving. His plane hit a 7/8” cable stretched across the Snake River. He hit the cable at a point or approx 100’ above the canyon floor.

I hope Margaret Lamb will not mind if I quote from her closing paragraphs on pg. 73:

“So why did these formidably qualified aviators fly at high speed into terrain? What was going on in their minds when they went lower and lower, coming closer and close to lethal obstacles?

“Perhaps each pilot was creating adventure out of a routine flight by setting up challenges. Maybe that’s the common thread (italics supplied). Flying low and fast over undulating terrain, how quickly can I pull up and turn? Coursing down this canyon, how close to the trees and water can I get, how much space is there to anticipate that next twist in the canyon wall? Here amidst these stony gray peaks I’m at the limits of climb power and the vertical speed indicator spins backwards around the dial; how much room do I have to point the nose down and where is my escape route?

“Despite the risks, we pilots always imagine adventure in terms of a successful outcome. When what’s necessary to finish a risky phase of flight shades from skill into luck, then adventurousness has gone too far.”
___________

You can always count on me sounding a note of caution when I read something like, “These are bush planes. You can drive them like a wimp, but what's the point in doing that? Get out there. Press it!”

I flew a lot w Shaun (and he flew a lot w me when he has a little tyke growing up) and I also flew with him for a week on his well documented trip in Alaska in 2007. We had a few heated “discussions” about the way he was flying. I tried to convince him that he was pressing it too much and not allowing enough room for safety margins.

He disagreed.

Fly safe, my friends.

Norm Lunt
aka "dad"

____________

Shaun's accident site 10 minutes after he crashed. Loni is parked alongside:

[Centmont]

Extremely sage advise Norm. Many of us closely followed this tragedy and the best we can hope to gain from it, is to learn... thank you for continuing to care. Ralph

[RanRan]

Norm, I'm truly sorry about your son. And I can understand how my words sparked your reply. But I think what George and I were talking about (as a couple of old guys) were those incremental, but safe, steps that one takes or one doesn't to becoming a better pilot. The motto around here is "Go anywhere - Do anything." Safely. I admire your son - he died doing what he loved doing. I lot of people can't say that.

Ran

[Norm]

Norm, I'm truly sorry about your son. And I can understand how my words sparked your reply. But I think what George and I were talking about (as a couple of old guys) were those incremental, but safe, steps that one takes or one doesn't to becoming a better pilot. The motto around here is "Go anywhere - Do anything." Safely. I admire your son - he died doing what he loved doing. I lot of people can't say that.

Ran

Thanks Centmont and RanRan.

RanRan, I know you didn't mean to suggest that pilots press themselves into something dangerous. At the same time, my friend, I think we need to monitor our words carefully on these forums. There are a lot of pilots who do not need to be encouraged to "press" themselves when it comes to flying, and certainly do not want to be considered "wimps".

Flying single engine taildraggers is dangerous enough when we fly just "normally". Add a sporting or performance element to it and it gets more dangerous. Combine flying low and slow with all of that and it can get even more dangerous ~ really fast.

Thanks for your reply and I know you will continue to encourage other pilots to fly safely above all else.

Regards,

Norm

[RanRan]

I watched helplessly as he adopted a more and more critical attitude toward the FAA and the regulations. Why can't we all understand that those regulations are the result of 100 years of aviation experience that are intended to save us from ourselves...

I viewed your son's site (those beautiful photos!) and he never once struck me as careless or reckless. Thoroughly likable and funny, yes. I'm sure at the resurrection your understanding will be complete. In the meantime, find peace - you raised a wonderful son.

Ran

[Norm]

I viewed your son's site (those beautiful photos!) and he never once struck me as careless or reckless.
Ran

His pictures don't depict it.

But flying in a circle at 75' to 100' AGL in a strong, even steady, wind is Russian roulette. Even without the wind.

I don't mean to sound insensitive, but, I don't have to wait for the resurrection to understand completely what happened and why he died. I understand now. It's all about physics and aerodynamics. It's as simple as the Private Pilot exercise of Turns About a Point with some wind.

But ... his Turn About a Point was with an insanely insufficient altitude to recover from an unintended accelerated stall.

Regards,

Norm

[reileyr]

My son and his friend were killed west of Anchorage this summer in a carbon copy incident to the one that took Shaun. High bank turns about a point at low altitude, especially in windy conditions is a killer. Commonly know as a moose stall, a cub is happily flying one second and the next second its in a vertical dive with the airspeed quickly approaching red-line. I used to demo moose stalls to cub pilots and many came away pale and weak kneeded. This stall is violent with the upside wing coming over the top as the nose drops vertically. At low altitude, its only a question of how many seconds the pilot has to live. No recovery is possible in less than a thousand feet. A moose stall is nothing like the gentle mushy stalls most cub pilots are trained to recognize and handle. I agree with Norm. Its what pilots think they know but really don't know about stalls that is deadliest when pushing the "limits".