Insurance policy renewals

[turbopilot]

My Ex now costs 2.5 time my RV10 per thousand. Been insuring both over six years and i have over 6000 hrs, 1500 tw. Cubcrafters needs to step into this similar to what Cirrus did years ago. Liability only is a poor compromise to control insurance costs

Agree. This is an existential threat to the CubCrafters business model. I don't know the percent of CC buyers who finance both new and used, but if insurance is not available (already prohibitively expensive) all those buyers who finance will go away.

[Andy]

The FX-3 runway environment accident rate is the leading problem. Just look at the NTSB database.

From the NSB reports that I have read it is departing the paved runway environment that is a leading problem.

A major deficiency in the NTSB data is that the pilot reporting form, and the NTSB final report, have no provision for reporting tailwheel time.

I don't care how many thousand hours you have watching the autopilot fly a transport aircraft. The only time that is relevant to FX-3 accidents is recent time in tailwheel. Insurance companies ask for it but NTSB does not ask for it or report it.

[turbopilot]

I don't care how many thousand hours you have watching the autopilot fly a transport aircraft. The only time that is relevant to FX-3 accidents is recent time in tailwheel. Insurance companies ask for it but NTSB does not ask for it or report it.

No doubt proficiency is part of the problem but I suspect there are other issues at play. Most of these accidents are big tires on pavement.

Another one just popped up in my YouTube stream.

[Andy]

Most of these accidents are big tires on pavement.

Most of the NTSB reports are short on useful information but I suspect many of these loss of control accidents start with hot wheel landings. That's what took out the factory FX-3 demonstrator. (That is one of the FX-3 accidents that has good information in the NTSB docket).

I don't think you will find a single pilot report that starts with "I made a three point landing on the center line with no misalignment and no drift and then suddenly lost control..."

[turbopilot]

I don't think you will find a single pilot report that starts with "I made a three point landing on the center line with no misalignment and no drift and then suddenly lost control..."

I read through all the FX-3 NTSB reports a few years ago. At that time there were 12 NTSB accidents out of a fleet of 105 FX-3's. Most of the accidents were in the landing and takeoff phase. They all reported some kind of loss of control but I do not recall any details as to the type of landing being made. The one issue that stood out for me is that most of the loss of control accidents were on pavement, not off airport as you might suspect.

[backtoflyn]

Avemco would not quote for my FX-3 and would give no reason. I have about 6,000 hours including nearly 800 tail wheel. Was your Avemco quote for an FX-3?

I was declined by avemco because their limit on experimental hull coverage is only $200,000. Because it's experimental the insurance cost is around 3X's that of a super cub or a "certified" plane. I personally think it's corruption by the several manufacturers to insurance companies to keep pilots from buying a cheaper / safer experimental plane. Lots of good info from a pilot selling insurance at avemco. By the way going through around 20 months of ntsb data there was only 13 accidents with carbon cubs.

[Rick Bosshardt]

FYI, AIG and STARR dont have those restrictions for EAB hull value.

[chipallen]

In my experience, (15 years with CubCrafters) AVEMCO has not been our friend. Starr has been great, and some of my owners have had good success with AIG.

[jmorrical]

I am ready to submit my FAA paperwork for the Airworthiness Inspection. This week I began again exploring insurance for my Carbon Cub EX (1). Thought I would share my quote so it's clear to those who might be in similar circumstances.

I'm 75 years old. While I'm in very good health that does not matter. I'm 75. I have 23,000 hours + with Airplane and Rotor Craft ATP. My experience is as a 20 year Army helicopter pilot, major airline for 24 years and a three year stent flying corporate mid size jets and helicopters. I have not kept my CFI, CFII and MEI current for years as there was no need. I've only accumulated 22 hours total tailwheel time with 9 of that in the last six months. My tail wheel training was in late 1960's. I have recently flown a tailwheel refresher and asked that it include a tailwheel endorsement just as a clear record of proficiency.

The policy quote would not be available to me until I have 15 hours of dual in the Carbon Cub EX. The likely course for me is to find 2-5 hours somewhere in an EX for my own level of comfort, fly my phase I test flight requirements uninsured then re apply for a policy quote. The underwriter suggested this could be an acceptable course to delete the 15 hour dual requirement. I guess if I don't bend it in the 25 hours or so of Phase I Test Flying I pass muster for some coverage.

Anyway here is the quote.

Screen Shot 2023-06-15 at 9.46.55 PM.jpg



Falcon Insurance Quote.pdf

[40m]

I am ready to submit my FAA paperwork for the Airworthiness Inspection. This week I began again exploring insurance for my Carbon Cub EX (1). Thought I would share my quote so it's clear to those who might be in similar circumstances.

I'm 75 years old. While I'm in very good health that does not matter. I'm 75. I have 23,000 hours + with Airplane and Rotor Craft ATP. My experience is as a 20 year Army helicopter pilot, major airline for 24 years and a three year stent flying corporate mid size jets and helicopters. I have not kept my CFI, CFII and MEI current for years as there was no need. I've only accumulated 22 hours total tailwheel time with 9 of that in the last six months. My tail wheel training was in late 1960's. I have recently flown a tailwheel refresher and asked that it include a tailwheel endorsement just as a clear record of proficiency.

The policy quote would not be available to me until I have 15 hours of dual in the Carbon Cub EX. The likely course for me is to find 2-5 hours somewhere in an EX for my own level of comfort, fly my phase I test flight requirements uninsured then re apply for a policy quote. The underwriter suggested this could be an acceptable course to delete the 15 hour dual requirement. I guess if I don't bend it in the 25 hours or so of Phase I Test Flying I pass muster for some coverage.

Anyway here is the quote.

Screen Shot 2023-06-15 at 9.46.55 PM.jpg



Falcon Insurance Quote.pdf

Jim,
For comparison I have the same valves of coverage on my EX2. I am 69 with 1800 hrs of TW, 525 in EX2, 250 in Sport Cub. 190 was within the last 12 months. This years quote over last year's policy ($3400) increased by $1700 ($5100). Global came in $700 over last years policy at $4100. In 2019 when I first insured the EX2 the same coverage was $2900. I am not loyal to any insurer as clearly they are not to me evidenced by substantial increases after each year of their coverage. I should increase my hull based on current market values but I more likely to insure only liability and ground at some point forward. Two weeks ago a new NX (nose wheel configured) owner visited, he has thousands of hours of complex time with all ratings. Admittedly his insured values were probably double but his quote was $16000. He too thought he would self insure. My sincere advice to you would be to reach out to one of the CC sales guys and pay them to teach you how to take off and land this remarkable airplane, CFI or not these guys know how to keep them straight. This is where your best insurance dollar will be spent. Good luck,
40m Glenn