SBS-J16 - how long should it last when not charged?

[Andy]

This morning I submitted an on-line information request to EnerSys. I asked what specific charger/maintainer they recommended for the SBS J16. The reply from their Aviation Sales manager included:

" In regard to chargers many owners use chargers made by Lamar and Christie; use a quality charger. As to maintainers, EnerSys does not have a recommendation other than using the attached Test/Provisioning document."

Other technical documentation on the EnerSys SBS series says that constant voltage charging should be used and includes references to appropriate charge and float voltages.

I would note that at least one on-line site that markets this battery has attempted to mislead people by using a name very similar to https://www.odysseybattery.com/

[Daveembry]

Yeah, as I stated......I was referring to the PC680. I talked on the phone to Odyssey people directly. As I said, I haven't used the SBS-J16 yet, even though it is on my Odyssey charger right now. The technician there stated that the automotive charger I was using was not appropriate because of it's initial charge rates He sent me the specs and charge/cycle rates for my charger and showed me it was not appropriate as he said most normal, automotive type chargers were. I was using a Viking 4 amp charger from Harbor Freight set to the AGM setting at the time of the battery failure.

The gist of it all it that the "smart chargers" throw voltage at it in different manners. In their specs they clearly state that their batteries require a higher starting charge rate and used 14.7v for the PC680 and that batteries initially charged at a lower rate did not last as long (see the charts).

That's all I got. I know I used another, automotive type charger and the battery failed within weeks and I had it plugged into the battery at all times to charge and maintain (which I don't any longer). I've had 6 airplanes with that battery in it and since using the Odyssey I have had no problems.

That's all I can say and again.....this is NOT referring (and never has) to the SVS-J16.

I would suggest reading the info from them regarding the required charge rates and cycles and comparing it to a charger you are considering. As I previously posted.....their specification clearly state their requirements and how to determine if that charger is correct or not.

Here is another page from their specs clearly stating ...."Inadequate or improper charging is a common cause or premature failure of rechargeable lead acid batteries. To properly charge your premium Odyssey battery, EnerSys has developed a special charge algorithim......."

​36BBDD3A-0985-451A-B1FD-8DE696AE1345.jpg

Neal,

I was trying to find an old post I did with the documents about this but I can’t seem to find it. The battery I was referring to is their PC680, which was the battery CC use to use. I now have a SBS-J16 in my current build but haven’t used it yet but I think it’s probably the same.

Essentially what they said is that their batteries (which are AGM and not gel) require a higher voltage charge at the beginning of the cycle at 14.7v whereas standard chargers normally charge up to 14.7 after starting at a lower voltage.

Look at the document below at page 16. There is also lots of other good info you ask about in this document. They say it should hold a charge for 24 months but less with the parasitic drain from the stay alive transponder active.

i first learned of all this after I had a battery (PC680) also go bad. I kept it on a regular, automotive “smart” charger/maintainer (which really wasn’t needed) but many times I spent a lot of time with the G3X on while I configured/tested/explored etc and needed to charge it back and also figured it was best to keep it up and fully charged. It started doing the same thing as yours. Sluggish and then it just wouldn’t start. I would use a voltmeter (and look at the panel) and would see the voltage low just under 12v. I charged it and it charged fully and it took the charge but as it sat for a few hours or a day and it would not hold the charge long. That’s when I talked to the people at Odyssey and they explained this to me. Essentially it seems the automotive charger/maintainer ruined it. They would not warrant it.

i now use the 6amp Odyssey charger as they said and have had no problems but I do not leave it on the charger. I only use it if I have drained it while not flying.

Check out this link. Lots of good info including this page regarding this. The previous document they had sent me went into more detail but still gets the message on how different they are.

https://www.odysseybatteries.com/ody.../us-ody-tm.pdf


Attachment 12307


Owners Manual.

https://www.odysseybatteries.com/ody.../us-ody-om.pdf


Attachment 12308

Odyssey batteries are pretty cool because they are essentially “dry cell batteries” with no liquid acid or gel inside.

So to test it, measure the current voltage (on voltmeter in plane if installed or use a voltmeter and test it). Charge it with your charger. It will probably charge into the green and be good but let it sit a day or 2 and remeasure the voltage and see if it drops down. Below 12v and it’s bad and probably won’t start the engine. If it drops like that, the battery is no good.

[Dan L]

FE20B59E-8BDD-45C5-A983-6D9AAF4F8D84.jpg

This is the brass angle I was referring to. They come with the PC680 but maybe not with the SBS J16.

This is an old PC680 now relegated to boat use.

[hawgdrvr]

Dave - The SBS-J16 is not an Odyssey battery
CubCrafters - your web site aircraft configurator shows an upcharge for an Odyssey SBS-J16 battery - it is NOT an Odyssey battery

Let's get the above understood as Andy pointed out. I looked for the charge rates today and could not find anything. I read what you posted above Andy, still doesn't really help for battery maintaining.

The charger Dave recommended I do believe is a good choice. I read the manual on it and it works for both lead acid and AGM so somehow it knows, at least it has intelligent features which look good to me for conditioning and maintaining the battery. It also comes with a pigtail, which I installed with my replacement SBS-J16 today which makes connecting it a breeze.

I do NOT believe using the AGM setting on a charger is correct such as the NOCO Genius 5. I do not believe the SBS-J16 is an AGM battery. It is simple a "sealed" lead acid battery.

My battery replacement is complete and I did connect the new charger to it for about an hour before flying while I cleaned up and put everything back in place. The former battery is on the charger now as I'm going to let it condition for a few days and then store it fully charged as a spare.

So I'll "circle back" to my original question which is how long should the battery last when not on a charger, i.e. are people putting their planes on a charger when not in use or only when not flying after X number of weeks? I don't think CubCrafters puts them on chargers while waiting for flight testing and/or delivery. I think I'm only going to charge when necessary such as extended non flying, travel, etc. and see how things go now that winter is passed us.

I will say here and probably in future posts. CubCrafters, please participate and educate. Your absence from this forum is noticeable and you're leaving customers stranded who need education. This will also help reduce your email loads which probably overwhelms Pete. Educating on this forum allows others to learn from the open discussions and it's searchable. We need technical participation on the forum as a service to your customers.

[Daveembry]

again….I have said multiple times…..I have not been referring to that battery. Never have. The video didnt, most post haven’t. Why do I even get involved in these discussions?

Dave - The SBS-J16 is not an Odyssey battery
CubCrafters - your web site aircraft configurator shows an upcharge for an Odyssey SBS-J16 battery - it is NOT an Odyssey battery

Let's get the above understood as Andy pointed out. I looked for the charge rates today and could not find anything. I read what you posted above Andy, still doesn't really help for battery maintaining.

The charger Dave recommended I do believe is a good choice. I read the manual on it and it works for both lead acid and AGM so somehow it knows, at least it has intelligent features which look good to me for conditioning and maintaining the battery. It also comes with a pigtail, which I installed with my replacement SBS-J16 today which makes connecting it a breeze.

I do NOT believe using the AGM setting on a charger is correct such as the NOCO Genius 5. I do not believe the SBS-J16 is an AGM battery. It is simple a "sealed" lead acid battery.

My battery replacement is complete and I did connect the new charger to it for about an hour before flying while I cleaned up and put everything back in place. The former battery is on the charger now as I'm going to let it condition for a few days and then store it fully charged as a spare.

So I'll "circle back" to my original question which is how long should the battery last when not on a charger, i.e. are people putting their planes on a charger when not in use or only when not flying after X number of weeks? I don't think CubCrafters puts them on chargers while waiting for flight testing and/or delivery. I think I'm only going to charge when necessary such as extended non flying, travel, etc. and see how things go now that winter is passed us.

I will say here and probably in future posts. CubCrafters, please participate and educate. Your absence from this forum is noticeable and you're leaving customers stranded who need education. This will also help reduce your email loads which probably overwhelms Pete. Educating on this forum allows others to learn from the open discussions and it's searchable. We need technical participation on the forum as a service to your customers.

[hawgdrvr]

Dave, I thought you were pointing me/us to the document with your highlights for the topic of this thread. I completely understand your dead battery was not the SBS-J16. This thread is referring to the SBS-J16 per my issue and inquiry. I think the charger you found IS a good option even for this battery. I thank you for finding it per your video that I learned from, even if your reference to the failed battery is not this one. Doesn't mean this one can't fail from a wrong charger too.

It would be nice if CubCrafters can learn from these questions and provide guidance for battery maintenance.

[hawgdrvr]

Why do I even get involved in these discussions?

Because you help and we appreciate it. We, customers, wish CubCrafters would be the one to help.

[Andy]

So I'll "circle back" to my original question which is how long should the battery last when not on a charger, i.e. are people putting their planes on a charger when not in use or only when not flying after X number of weeks? I don't think CubCrafters puts them on chargers while waiting for flight testing and/or delivery. I think I'm only going to charge when necessary such as extended non flying, travel, etc. and see how things go now that winter is passed us.

When I was at CubCrafters it seemed that there were lots of airplanes that were on chargers. It kind of bothered me that they seemed to think an aircraft couldn't sit overnight without being on a charger.

If an aircraft can't sit a week without needing to be on a charger then something needs to be changed. My PA-28 sits a month unattended and starts in a couple of seconds.

If I run an FX-3 avionics test that needs master on I connect a 1 amp charger to the 12 V outlet. It's not enough to supply all the avionics current but the battery is back to full charge before I leave the hangar and I disconnect it.

I'm in a city hangar and the hangar police only allow one make and model of charger. I'm not bending to that rule so my FX-3 is never left on a changer when I'm not there.

[Daveembry]

EnerSys apparently makes them under the different brand names. Hawker, Powersafe, Odyssey, etc. so it is an Odyssey battery.

E6AE95C5-C110-44D9-8A47-21111B237B5A.jpg

This is the charger recommended specifically for that battery it seems.

6E5AD3D9-52E5-4AD9-91C2-7A99495BA658.jpg


2D738B35-FAED-48C0-8132-EB354F3CD128.jpg


https://www.batteryminders.com/batte...er-desulfator/

Dave - The SBS-J16 is not an Odyssey battery
CubCrafters - your web site aircraft configurator shows an upcharge for an Odyssey SBS-J16 battery - it is NOT an Odyssey battery

Let's get the above understood as Andy pointed out. I looked for the charge rates today and could not find anything. I read what you posted above Andy, still doesn't really help for battery maintaining.

The charger Dave recommended I do believe is a good choice. I read the manual on it and it works for both lead acid and AGM so somehow it knows, at least it has intelligent features which look good to me for conditioning and maintaining the battery. It also comes with a pigtail, which I installed with my replacement SBS-J16 today which makes connecting it a breeze.

I do NOT believe using the AGM setting on a charger is correct such as the NOCO Genius 5. I do not believe the SBS-J16 is an AGM battery. It is simple a "sealed" lead acid battery.

My battery replacement is complete and I did connect the new charger to it for about an hour before flying while I cleaned up and put everything back in place. The former battery is on the charger now as I'm going to let it condition for a few days and then store it fully charged as a spare.

So I'll "circle back" to my original question which is how long should the battery last when not on a charger, i.e. are people putting their planes on a charger when not in use or only when not flying after X number of weeks? I don't think CubCrafters puts them on chargers while waiting for flight testing and/or delivery. I think I'm only going to charge when necessary such as extended non flying, travel, etc. and see how things go now that winter is passed us.

I will say here and probably in future posts. CubCrafters, please participate and educate. Your absence from this forum is noticeable and you're leaving customers stranded who need education. This will also help reduce your email loads which probably overwhelms Pete. Educating on this forum allows others to learn from the open discussions and it's searchable. We need technical participation on the forum as a service to your customers.

[hawgdrvr]

Interesting find. I did notice the different brands but only saw the SBS-J16 under one label - doesn't matter. Just trying to determine the right charger to ensure proper maintaining of the battery. I still think the charger you found in your video reference is a good one (the Odyssey charger) for any 12V lead acid or AGM. The noco genius 5 is probably fine too. Sorting it out...

I'd love to hear from any aircraft owners willing to share...are you leaving your plane on a charger when not in use? Or how long do you go before needing a charger? I realize if you're going to fiddle with avionics it's good to have it on power. But for in between flying I'm just trying to learn what I should be doing.