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Thread: Flight into IMC Prohibited??

  1. #1
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    Question Flight into IMC Prohibited??

    I have a new FX-3 with an IFR panel which includes 2 radios (GNC 355 / G5 / Pitot Heat). Why does CubCrafters put a placard below my G3X that states Flight into IMC is prohibited? It's in the POH as well. Please don't reply with "You're the manufacturer..." - I know that. I just want to understand where this IMC prohibited comes from and why. I reviewed my AW certificate, don't see anything there. Should CubCrafters NOT put this placard below the G3X with IFR equipped aircraft?

    Let me add, I have ZERO intention or desire to fly IMC. I'm instrument rated and have plenty of IFR/IMC experience from my Air Force days. That's long ago, I'm neither proficient nor current. I am in the process of learning GPS approaches only for the curiosity, no intention of ever flying them IFR at this point but maybe that could change with training and who knows what years down the road.

    It seems to be this placard is incorrect for IFR paneled aircraft. Anyone have any info or can explain this? When I took delivery I logged it as a squawk in that it shouldn't be there. I was given the "you're the manufacturer..." but I want to fully understand the reasoning before anyone just blatantly undoes something that is there for a good reason.

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    Senior Member Andy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flight into IMC Prohibited??

    Quote Originally Posted by hawgdrvr View Post
    I have a new FX-3 with an IFR panel which includes 2 radios (GNC 355 / G5 / Pitot Heat). Why does CubCrafters put a placard below my G3X that states Flight into IMC is prohibited? It's in the POH as well. Please don't reply with "You're the manufacturer..." - I know that. I just want to understand where this IMC prohibited comes from and why. I reviewed my AW certificate, don't see anything there. Should CubCrafters NOT put this placard below the G3X with IFR equipped aircraft?

    Let me add, I have ZERO intention or desire to fly IMC. I'm instrument rated and have plenty of IFR/IMC experience from my Air Force days. That's long ago, I'm neither proficient nor current. I am in the process of learning GPS approaches only for the curiosity, no intention of ever flying them IFR at this point but maybe that could change with training and who knows what years down the road.

    It seems to be this placard is incorrect for IFR paneled aircraft. Anyone have any info or can explain this? When I took delivery I logged it as a squawk in that it shouldn't be there. I was given the "you're the manufacturer..." but I want to fully understand the reasoning before anyone just blatantly undoes something that is there for a good reason.
    I fully intend to operate my FX-3 in IMC and I made sure that none of the certification paper trail prohibited IMC. The operating limitations define how your aircraft can be operated. Mine allow IMC if suitably equipped. You can change/remove any placards you don't like. I'd suggest editing the AFM to delete any IMC prohibitions as long as your aircraft is suitably equipped.

    My changes from as delivered configuration include - added G5 redundant attitude display, added pitot heat, added pitot heat current monitoring. The GPS 175 IFR/LPV navigator is on the test bench and, hopefully, will be installed soon.

    I maintain legal instrument currency. As a CFII I recognize that does not imply instrument proficiency.

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    Default Re: Flight into IMC Prohibited??

    37A70D18-8F48-4C4F-B44F-6AAEEE00DA67.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by hawgdrvr View Post
    I have a new FX-3 with an IFR panel which includes 2 radios (GNC 355 / G5 / Pitot Heat). Why does CubCrafters put a placard below my G3X that states Flight into IMC is prohibited? It's in the POH as well. Please don't reply with "You're the manufacturer..." - I know that. I just want to understand where this IMC prohibited comes from and why. I reviewed my AW certificate, don't see anything there. Should CubCrafters NOT put this placard below the G3X with IFR equipped aircraft?

    Let me add, I have ZERO intention or desire to fly IMC. I'm instrument rated and have plenty of IFR/IMC experience from my Air Force days. That's long ago, I'm neither proficient nor current. I am in the process of learning GPS approaches only for the curiosity, no intention of ever flying them IFR at this point but maybe that could change with training and who knows what years down the road.

    It seems to be this placard is incorrect for IFR paneled aircraft. Anyone have any info or can explain this? When I took delivery I logged it as a squawk in that it shouldn't be there. I was given the "you're the manufacturer..." but I want to fully understand the reasoning before anyone just blatantly undoes something that is there for a good reason.
    Dave Embry
    "You only live once.......but if you do it right.........once is enough."..

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    Default Re: Flight into IMC Prohibited??

    Quote Originally Posted by hawgdrvr View Post
    I have a new FX-3 with an IFR panel which includes 2 radios (GNC 355 / G5 / Pitot Heat). Why does CubCrafters put a placard below my G3X that states Flight into IMC is prohibited?
    Hi Neal,

    One of these days we're really going to meet in person. Fingers crossed, there will be another FX-3 at KFCI this month (my buddy's) and I have an EX-3 I'm trying to wrap up now over at W96...just a few miles away.

    Regarding your question, I think there are a few things that might be at play that haven't already been mentioned. First, I don't have any first hand knowledge of CubCrafters stating these are their reasons why...but they're certainly applicable.

    First, any airplane that will be flown under instrument flight rules must have had a pitot/static inspection per FAR 91.411. That paragraph does not apply to aircraft only being used under visual flight rules and as such, may not be an inspection that is completed and logged in Yakima by default. You may want to check your logbooks to see if it was.

    Second, it's not uncommon for manufacturers to prohibit something in the PoH that is later redacted or changed in a supplement. For example, the Cirrus if fly has a POH limitation in section 2 prohibiting flight into known icing. Much farther back there's a supplement for the certified anti-icing system that amends each section of the POH individually and the amendment of section 2 removes the prohibition on flight into known icing.

    If and when you do want to go up and fly any of the GPS approaches in the area, give me a buzz. We can go through the procedures, buttonology, and answer any questions you might have.

    All my best,

    Patrick

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    Senior Member Andy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flight into IMC Prohibited??

    Quote Originally Posted by ptredway View Post
    If and when you do want to go up and fly any of the GPS approaches in the area, give me a buzz. We can go through the procedures, buttonology, and answer any questions you might have.
    I have my GPS 175 on the bench prior to installation. The navigator is the same as the GNC 355 and both have "demo" mode capability. Running in demo mode on the ground is a great way to get familiar with the unit. It requires having the demo mode pin grounded at power up and that pin is likely not wired by CubCrafters. Easy to add.

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    Default Re: Flight into IMC Prohibited??

    Thanks all:

    Thanks Dave - I'll email Pete

    Thanks Patrick, I would definitely like some training and I have my FX-3 if you need any info for your build. I'll also need to figure out who is going to do the 100 hour (I realize it's not required for an experimental engine but I still want to do it) and also the conditional and then the biennial, so I have to figure out who can do these things.

    Thanks Andy. There is an iPad trainer as well, I was actually playing with it last night. I'm one, like others, that really like to get to know the systems and not be ignorant. I really want to learn these GPS approaches, just like IFR, it's great to know and neat to learn, and a challenge. Part of the reason I got my GNC 355 was to keep me learning and not get bored with local flying. I always loved instrument flying for the challenges, I don't care to be IMC and never plan to be but I want to relearn it all over time. I still can't figure out why my GPS approach wanted to do a turn in hold. I lined up so my turn towards the IAF was a 90 degree turn to course so it should have been able to make the turn inbound. I have a lot to learn...and look forward to it again.

    The GNC 355 and the integration (or 175) is amazing. Very impressed with the Garmin suite. I got the subscription that includes the IFR charts, in case anyone needs to know I think you do require that to see the approach plates. All part of the fun for me and hope to share a video of an ignorant GPS approach look. I did a video twice now and it's too ignorant to show as I'm also learning the autopilot and why it wouldn't descend on the approach, I realized that's not automatic until glidepath capture, I think. So I've learned from studying various YouTube videos about VS and VNAV for the descents. My last approach attempt though was neat how it captured and flew a perfect course and glidepath, so cool!

    https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/685256
    Last edited by hawgdrvr; 01-03-2022 at 06:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Flight into IMC Prohibited??

    Here is a video of my RNAV GPS approach yesterday.

    https://youtu.be/0Sf_SmJV1WU

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    Default Re: Flight into IMC Prohibited??

    That looks fun. It almost makes me wish I had an autopilot. You’re getting it dialed in.
    Flying Carbon Cub EX #11 since 2011

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    Default Re: Flight into IMC Prohibited??

    The question came up in the AK raffle plane video (https://youtu.be/kdJNcSC3QxU) regarding the FX-3 being IFR "certified". I'm not sure the answer in the video was correct regarding the airplane needing to be IFR certified but I honestly don't know. My understanding is it's dependent on avionics and nothing to do with experimental or CubCrafters getting an IFR certification.

    For example, my plane did get the IFR certification on the G3X and Transponder per a calibration and test so mine should be legal for IFR and IMC, not that I have any intention of doing that due to my proficiency and currency. But I believe that the FX-3 with the above certification it is IFR certified. One note, for some reason it seems CubCrafters did not calibrate my G5 (50ft off of the G3X) but only the G3X so that was done on mine this past week locally, not expensive or time consuming (1.5 hours).

    So I just want to get the facts and details for those with questions such as asked in the video so we can have the correct answer.

    Another note, I did email Pete for the revised G3X border template (adhesive) where it mentioned IMC prohibited and promptly got an updated one (completely blank) which I recently installed so all is good there. Thanks Pete & Dave!

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    Senior Member Andy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flight into IMC Prohibited??

    Quote Originally Posted by hawgdrvr View Post
    So I just want to get the facts and details for those with questions such as asked in the video so we can have the correct answer.
    All the limitations that apply to your FX-3 are defined in the "Operating Limitations". These include what is required for IFR. I don't understand what you are struggling with.

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