PSTOL flaps on FX-3?

[Andy]

It's on my self training plan including engine idle 180 degree turns to test turn back altitude lost, and various other training items on my agenda.

I have practiced the "impossible (not) turn" and taught it in at least two different aircraft types. I was not prepared for how the FX-3 behaves. I needed 500 ft to make it back to the runway with an idle cut at Vy with flaps 1. I worked up from 300 ft from which I would have crashed off airport. It takes less than 300 ft in my PA-28.

If you try this I suggest starting at least 600 ft agl. You will be surprised at the altitude lost. Practice high up first and be sure you can keep the ball centered.

If anyone can do it consistently from less than 500 ft please share your technique.

[Andy]

I first heard it from the CubCrafters delivery pilot, then from others around the community. I think it comes from Mike Bush / Savvy Aviation. 380 target CHT, 1440 EGT.

I think Mike Busch may hunt you down and beat you with a 2x4. Here is a direct quote from his article that was referenced earlier in this wandering thread:

"There is no such thing as a maximum EGT limit or redline, and trying to keep absolute EGTs below some particular value—or even worse, leaning to a particular absolute EGT value—is simply wrongheaded. Don’t do it. If you must fixate on those digital engine monitor readouts, fixate on something important, like CHT."

[Narwhal747]

Still fast, working on it, touch down at 40 mph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUi11WbMlNU

Nice flying! Thanks for sharing the video! Great to see your bird in action!

You will be able to land in about 1/3rd that distance eventually, although you probably weren't trying for that on this nice long runway. I just listen for that first AoA chirp to be active continuously, aim to keep a point right before the threshold fixed in place on the windshield, then add a blip of power at 5 feet to arrest descent and toucdown with only 40-50 feet of flare. That looked like a nice soft landing though!

[Narwhal747]

I have practiced the "impossible (not) turn" and taught it in at least two different aircraft types. I was not prepared for how the FX-3 behaves. I needed 500 ft to make it back to the runway with an idle cut at Vy with flaps 1. I worked up from 300 ft from which I would have crashed off airport. It takes less than 300 ft in my PA-28.

If you try this I suggest starting at least 600 ft agl. You will be surprised at the altitude lost. Practice high up first and be sure you can keep the ball centered.

If anyone can do it consistently from less than 500 ft please share your technique.

Yeah, we did this at Tac-Aero, I think we only did it 3x though. I needed 600-700 AGL. With practice I think 500 feet could be doable. I linked a Mark Patey/Jason Sneed video below, where they try it in their EX2's. Slightly different animals, primarily in that due to heavier fx3 weights you will lose more altitude in the turn. I'm not a small man, and an instructor in the back was exacerbating our descent rate in the turn even more. I tried 500 feet first and did not make the field. Then again, I was reticent to bank more than 40 degrees during the maneuver. I feel like keeping your rate of turn very high, in a 50+ degree bank would be the key to pulling it off at 500 or less. Like you say, keep it coordinated! The beauty of a cub, is that you can probably find a suitable landing site straight ahead, or within 40 degrees of runway heading at 99% of airports.

Kind of fun to watch if you haven't!


Jon from Fly8MA really going in depth on this in a bearhawk patrol:
https://youtu.be/zJx-oFDDiiM

[hawgdrvr]

I think Mike Busch may hunt you down and beat you with a 2x4. Here is a direct quote from his article that was referenced earlier in this wandering thread:

"There is no such thing as a maximum EGT limit or redline, and trying to keep absolute EGTs below some particular value—or even worse, leaning to a particular absolute EGT value—is simply wrongheaded. Don’t do it. If you must fixate on those digital engine monitor readouts, fixate on something important, like CHT."

Haha - that would be fine as I've yet been able to endure his 1 hour 40 minute presentations. There's certainly a lot of things said in communities such as this and rules of thumb(s), as we said in the air force, there's technique (rot) and then there's procedure. Validating these rot's is what discussions like this are good for. Otherwise I'll find myself locked into not getting performance out of my plane such as the other day wanting to fly 24/24 to get to my off airport field faster as it's 45 minutes away.

[hawgdrvr]

I think this is the video regarding temps. Need to rewatch/listen.

https://youtu.be/df1DwFNYFLs

[Andy]

I linked a Mark Patey/Jason Sneed video below, where they try it in their EX2's. Slightly different animals, primarily in that due to heavier fx3 weights you will lose more altitude in the turn.

I suspect the difference is due to the prop not to any small weight difference.

[Dan L]

I have practiced the "impossible (not) turn" and taught it in at least two different aircraft types. I was not prepared for how the FX-3 behaves. I needed 500 ft to make it back to the runway with an idle cut at Vy with flaps 1. I worked up from 300 ft from which I would have crashed off airport. It takes less than 300 ft in my PA-28.

If you try this I suggest starting at least 600 ft agl. You will be surprised at the altitude lost. Practice high up first and be sure you can keep the ball centered.

If anyone can do it consistently from less than 500 ft please share your technique.

I watched the video from the Utah fellows and played around a bit in my EX this afternoon. I’m on straight skis now and our 4600’ long runway has about 2” of fresh snow on it, not plowed yet. So I thought it was a good scenario for practicing. Vy was determined to be 71 mph years ago and at a few hundred feet AGL that is a steep downward angle indeed, at idle power. I had one successful outcome at 300’ but also a few come-up-short attempts at that height. 500’ was not problem.

Starting a turn to the right while gaining altitude helps. From runway heading it is hard to get turned at lined back up with the runway. More practice is needed on my part to initiate the turn immediately after power loss. I found myself pitching down for Vy and then, too late, starting a turn back to the runway.

A fun and worthwhile exercise. I’ll try it again.

[Andy]

I had one successful outcome at 300’ but also a few come-up-short attempts at that height. 500’ was not problem.

EX with a fixed pitch prop - correct?

[Dan L]

EX with a fixed pitch prop - correct?

Yes.

What’s Vy with an FX3?