Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 32

Thread: PSTOL flaps on FX-3?

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    FL001
    Posts
    282

    Default Re: PSTOL flaps on FX-3?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Everyone will have their own preferences but I like to fly every approach as though I'm landing on a 500 ft strip. That's where technique will really matter and, if that's not the way you usually fly, it's not likely you'll get it right when you need to.

    The controllers at my base airport have become used to me and my FX-3. They know where I want to turn off and that I'll want to turn base before reaching the approach end and land 2/3 of the way down the runway. When traffic does not allow that, and forces me to extend downwind, I stay high until I intercept the same steep glide path.

    For straight in approaches the other direction I stay clean and fast until about 1/4 mile final then slow, flaps out, again intercepting the desired steep approach to the aim point.

    I'm amazed, and a bit shocked, that TAC Aero didn't teach leaning technique for the FX-3.
    I 100% agree Andy. My discomfort with slow right now is something I'm working on. There is a RAF/private "field" I have permission to land on (VA19) and have been there 3 times now and have yet to land there as I'm not comfortable. The trick to that is slow and I need to do that. I had no issues during TW endorsement or TacAero training, probably as I had an expert in back. When it's your plane and not a "rental" things change You can look at the videos on theraf.org and find VA 19 in Virginia. The Super Cub makes it look easy, I think he has slats too. Not a small field, but to me I'm not comfortable yet.

    I also prefer a tighter pattern. Interesting situation the other day when someone asked to takeoff when I was on base, I said no, please hold. He actually didn't see me as I was about 1000 ft off the numbers turning in on final where he thought I was a mile out or something. I prefer the tighter patterns. I'll get this all dialed in, just taking me a little time.

    I probably had Kris max'd out that leaning got overlooked. I flew full rich on all of my flights. I've later learned you need to lean out even on taxi. Again, things I want to start sharing with others as I recall everything I had to ask about either nagging the poor guys at TacAero and poor TSquared for my million plus questions such as even getting all the bluetooth connections right between G3X, GNC 355, Bose A20...lots of fun, love all this amazing technology in the plane and how great the FX-3 flies, etc.

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    FL001
    Posts
    282

    Default Re: PSTOL flaps on FX-3?

    Once again excellent tip Andy and I practiced this today on my flight. Working the speeds down in the pattern is a great suggestion and something I will now practice for the reasons you mention. Knots always feels safer, even in A-10's we landed fast as no one likes the feeling in the final turn at published speeds. Certainly felt different today and something to continue to gain comfort with.

  3. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    72

    Default Re: PSTOL flaps on FX-3?

    I'm amazed, and a bit shocked, that TAC Aero didn't teach leaning technique for the FX-3.
    They did when I went. Then again maybe it's because I asked about it. One of the first things I wanted to do was see how fast it could go at 25/25 in cruise then play around with fuel economy at various power and mixture settings to include going LOP. Seemed to be getting about 125 mph TAS with abiut 7.5 GPH, 50 F Lean of peak at 23"/2400 rpm, at 5500 ft etc. in bumble bee.

  4. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    FL001
    Posts
    282

    Default Re: PSTOL flaps on FX-3?

    Do you recall the CHT or EGT's at 25/25? The other day I wanted to get somewhere faster and went 24/24 around 2000 MSL. EGT's were around 1440 which I hear is max you should go. Fine in a "rental" but not my plane

  5. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    72

    Default Re: PSTOL flaps on FX-3?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawgdrvr View Post
    Do you recall the CHT or EGT's at 25/25? The other day I wanted to get somewhere faster and went 24/24 around 2000 MSL. EGT's were around 1440 which I hear is max you should go. Fine in a "rental" but not my plane
    I don't remember the EGTs specifically, but it seems like they were running around 1300-1400 in a 25/25 climb at full rich and 2000 or so density altitude. CHTs would be in the 380-400 range if you ran it there until you couldn't keep 25" anymore at a reasonable 80-90 mph climb at ISA +10 or thereabouts. They're closer to 380 once I leveled at altitude.

    i don't think the absolute value of EGT matters much, the purpose of the number is to find the peak value and reference it and/or get a rough idea if you have the mixture set properly for a high density altitude takeoff. https://resources.savvyaviation.com/...s-debunked.pdf . Lycoming does mention a 1450 F max on their website, but I think that only applies to tubrocharged airplanes where excessive EGT/TIT can damage the turbo.

    CHT is what you want to limit, I've read 420 or less in Lycoming based engines and 400 or less in continentals. I don't like getting them hotter than 380 for too long, and if it hits 400 I'll take action to increase speed and/or reduce power. I think bumble bee's G3X was set up to provide an alert message at 400 EGT on any cylinder, maybe 420, can't remember.

    Again, the usual caveats apply, low time hack speaking here. Any more authoritative comments welcome.
    Last edited by Narwhal747; 12-28-2021 at 08:34 PM.

  6. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    NH07 Loudon, NH
    Posts
    81

    Default Re: PSTOL flaps on FX-3?

    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhal747 View Post

    Attachment 12023

    This was allegedly a carbon cub modified to take P-STOL's but there isn't much information about it. I found it on this thread over at SC.org https://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...131#post804131
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I've flown P-STOL kitted PA-18's vs Non P-STOL kitted PA-18's back to back and couldn't really tell a huge difference. Maybe someone with thousands of hours in the type could. I kind of preferred the stock flaps and bungess to the P-STOL and AOSS equipped PA-18's I flew. Granted, the fact that they were on 35's probably negated any suspension differences.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I couldn't really get the FX3 I flew for 15 hours (same one you trained in I think, hawgdrvr) to do a real power off stall. Some nose heavy cessnas (182's) behave the same way. At the published stall speed, with power off, the elevator loses authority and the nose just drops down to a roughly level pitch attitude even when you hold full aft stick with a lot of nose up trim, whether flaps or up or down. I don't really feel like you really achieve the critical AOA of the wing when you demonstrate a power off stall in the carbon cub.

    Kris mentioned that the number in the AFM was based on a power-off stall. I think the higher flaps down power-off stall speed number in the AFM can be attributed to this behavior (elevator stops working at a higher airspeed when power off with flaps down vs power-off with up) plus maybe a little bit of indicated airspeed error vs calibrated airspeed that is more prevalent at the higher AOA with flaps up. Perhaps the flaps block some airflow to the tail when power off but prop blast with power on negates that effect? Just speculating.

    With power on, it doesn't seem to stall until less than 20 MPH IAS, with full flaps, and that's at max gross weight....but when it does stall with power, it can be pretty abrupt, and drops a wing quick if you aren't well coordinated. Then again, that's with me flying, and I'm very average, at best, behind a cub.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    At the factory, it was mentioned that some people are ordering FX's with carbon cub SS flaps, because apparently the SS flaps deflect to a higher angle. I don't know the differences otherwise.

    In regard to the P-STOL's, there is some more info about them in the linked thread in terms of what Backcountry and Mackey are doing, etc.

    I don't see P-STOL's on Toby Ashley's sarge or Butch Kingston's EX. They are running slats of course for the pure STOL contests, though (but interestingly not the STOL drags). With that said, I'm sure there are so many mods going on with those that they're no more a stock carbon cub than Toyota's NASCAR team's car is a stock Camry.
    Biggest difference is the nose is much lower at the same speed as before with the pstol flaps you can get much slower if you use the same attitude.

    They really help on floats much more than on wheels.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    FL001
    Posts
    282

    Default Re: PSTOL flaps on FX-3?

    Still fast, working on it, touch down at 40 mph

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUi11WbMlNU

  8. #18
    Senior Member Andy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Glendale, AZ
    Posts
    714

    Default Re: PSTOL flaps on FX-3?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawgdrvr View Post
    Still fast, working on it, touch down at 40 mph
    Have you ever pulled power to idle on downwind and touched down at your preselected spot? Your videos make it look like you drag in all your approaches but maybe that's not what you are actually doing.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Andy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Glendale, AZ
    Posts
    714

    Default Re: PSTOL flaps on FX-3?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawgdrvr View Post
    . EGT's were around 1440 which I hear is max you should go.
    Where did you "hear" this?

    Here is the Lycoming book for the O-360 and IO-360 family of engines -

    https://www.lycoming.com/sites/defau...2060297-12.pdf

    I find no EGT limit for normally aspirated engines. Turbo engines in this family are limited to 1650 deg F TIT. I did find a larger Lycoming that was limited to 1450 TIT.

  10. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    FL001
    Posts
    282

    Default Re: PSTOL flaps on FX-3?

    I first heard it from the CubCrafters delivery pilot, then from others around the community. I think it comes from Mike Bush / Savvy Aviation. 380 target CHT, 1440 EGT.

    As to my pattern, what I flew yesterday is a little wider than normal but I've flown them tighter too as I typically land 2K down the runway (33 is typically the runway in use here). The last time I flew I flew tight patterns, kinda funny that the plane holding for takeoff asked to takeoff ahead of me, I said no, please wait, turns out he never saw me as I was on short final about 500ft off the threshold for base, if he would have looked out the front and up he would have seen me. Wish I kept the video from that one. I have done engine off simulation at TacAero and TW endorsement but not yet in my plane. It's on my self training plan including engine idle 180 degree turns to test turn back altitude lost, and various other training items on my agenda.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •