Best Battery for our Carbon Cubs?

[synergy46]

Based on the Concord Battery website, I am not sure that lithium batteries are quite ready for widespread aircraft application. Remember we are literally sitting on this battery in the Carbon Cub.

Limitations:

• Requires protection circuit to maintain voltage and current within safe limits. Protection circuitry involves both additional hardware and software.
• On aircraft battery monitoring and alarms will be required for safe operation.
• Subject to aging, even if not in use - storage in a cool place at 40% charge reduces the aging effect.
• Transportation restrictions - shipment of larger batteries may be subject to regulatory control.
• Expensive to manufacture - about 40 percent higher in cost than nickel-cadmium.
• Not a fully mature chemistry - metals and chemicals are changing on a continuing basis.
• Extremely flammable electrolyte.

Thanks for the research. I noted also: "The lithium-ion main aircraft battery will not be a retrofit battery. In order to assure safe operation, the lithium-ion battery must be integrated into the control software and electronics of the aircraft system. Redundant safety systems built into the aircraft as well as into the battery are required to control the lithium-ion battery. With adequate protection systems and monitoring, the battery will provide reliable power for the aircraft of the future. "

To me it looks like Cubcrafters would have to make some hardware changes to accommodate the battery. I wonder if CC is aware of this technology?

[randylervold]

To me it looks like Cubcrafters would have to make some hardware changes to accommodate the battery. I wonder if CC is aware of this technology?

We are aware of it and are always looking for ways to improve our aircraft, especially in the area of reducing weight. I won't comment on what we might be working on, but suffice it to say we have a healthy R&D agenda and starting system weight and performance are areas on our radar screen.

We reserve the right to improve.

[Steve Hamblin]

The current battery rolling down the production line is a PTX14BS-FS, 12 A-h, 200 CCA. I believe this is the 3rd or 4th battery improvement in our LSA line since the introduction of the model.

Steve

[John Hodges]

In looking at battery alternatives I ran into the "YTX14H-BS" which, according to the specs, has the same 6x3.4x5.75 dimension as our current PowerSonic battery. But it incorporates additional plates that give it a 240 CCA rating rather than our current 200 CCA. Yuasa makes it, and it is labled under "Motocross" batteries and perhaps other manufacturers and labels. Has anyone tried this battery? What results?

[glickle]

I have not had any experience with the exact model you are referencing however have had nothng but excellent results inother applications with the Yuasa battery line so IF they have 240 CCA I would try it. I must also now confess that after a year and 360 hours , my Xtreme X2-14 220 CCA is now exhibiting the same signs of not getting the starter over the hump although it did perform better than the Power Sonic till about a month ago. Best Gary

[John Hodges]

Gary, I'll get a 240 CCA Yuasa and try it out. Can't hurt. May help. I do know that hitting that little battery as hard as we do every start does not prolong its service life. I'll post what I learn. John

[rforsythe]

Interesting thread. I will preface this by saying that I have no direct experience with the CC (yet), though I do race motorcycles, also an area where we obsess about weight. One of our common mods is a smaller battery, however we've found that this frequently also lessens the useful life of them due to the added stress. The fact that the discharge/charge cycles are more dramatic relative to the capacity of the battery does not help either. We suck it up and deal with this fact of life, however also are not relying on the battery as a critical component for safety.

Keeping them on a battery tender like the one posted above is a fantastic idea. Most motorcycle shops sell them, and they can really extend the battery's ability to produce high output every time (something that falls off with age, storage conditions, etc). Extreme cold can also be a kiss of death for MC batteries - really for any battery, but seems to be more pronounced with this kind once they start to discharge. Keeping it on a tender will prevent that as well.

My experience with MC batteries has been the most positive with Yuasa, though not completely without fault. They seem to last the longest when cared for however. Because they are so small and asked to do so much, a little TLC goes a long way.

On Lithium batteries, it's promising tech but still not there yet. When they work they are fantastic, but misuse of the battery can result in spectacular failure. All of the electric-power aircraft designs I am aware of use Lithium due to the weight advantage, but contain the batteries in such a way that if they become unstable, the resulting fire and explosion exits down and away from the aircraft to prevent a total catastrophic loss in flight. The electronics are not too difficult in theory, but are a critical link as the Li/LiPoly/etc type batteries require intelligent charging systems to keep them in check. I see a future where the chemistry is stabilized and made safer and electronics are packaged right into the battery, but until that day I sure wouldn't strap one in under my seat and go fly.

The AGM batteries may be a good mod here. I switched to those in my diesel truck and the difference has been worth the extra cost. They last longer, handle temp variations much better, and are able to crank that thing over without hesitation even when soaked in below-zero temps.

[John Hodges]

On small chargers, we've had the best results with "Batteryminders" chargers. They aren't cheap, but they're smart, and are designed to address the sulfating damage that occurs with heavy discharge conditions.

[randylervold]

My recommendations on smart chargers can be found in the "Product reviews" section, click here.

[rforsythe]

Just saw this pointed out by a racer buddy of mine:

http://www.motydesign.com/12cell_prod.php

Lithium based battery that is supposedly safe, lots of amps, and uber light. I don't know any more about it than what's on that page, but it's intriguing.