Offer TK1 Shock Monsters as an option for customers

[turbopilot]

However, that being said, please also keep in mind it's sometimes a commercial decision on the part of the aftermarket vendor to sell their products retail direct to the consumer instead of offering that product through an OEM like CubCrafters.

Brad, that is the bottom line. But if CubCrafters would just replace those darn bungees as standard equipment with your own in house solution, most of this after market bungee replacement stuff would go away.

[raisedbywolves]

What’s the big deal? If you already have the shocks, and the airplane gets delivered on bungees, hang it from a chain fall and swap them out. It will take less than an hour. I don’t think you’re going to need TK’s in the first 40 hrs will you?


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[CharlesTym]

This thread and this post in particular pretty much sum up America today. Democrat vs Republican, Vaxxer vs anti-vaxxer, masker vs anti masker, old pilot vs new pilot and now finally Acme shock men vs TK1 shock men.

Its a perfectly reasonable request or suggestion to have TK shocks as an option from CC's. They are a great product and many people use them. I don't know why experienced pilots have to look down their long noses at their newer brethren buts its not a rare phenomenon. I wasnt sure if Mark Patey was going to get a dissing in this post for his troubles as well for having the temerity to recommend TK shocks ?

Lots of flights in my SS with the TK shocks and couldn't be happier.
Best single improvement to the a/c since I bought it.
Interestingly I ordered a pair of ACME when I was at Tac Aero and they shipped the wrong model.
Didnt have time to wait for a replacement.

Tony at TK is very good to deal with. Other Cub manufacturers supply them (TK) as a standard options along with the ACME.
America is all about consumer choice - right ?

Ask both companies what percentage of their products get returned under warranty or for post warranty repair.
And yes - get them on the parts list if that's what the people want.




sums

Caution: “KEYBOARD COMMANDO” in action in this thread.

Someone who has done a dozen or so landings in a tailwheel.....

Has never owned either of the shock systems mentioned.....

Yet wants to tell us all how bad or good they are and tells people with maybe 10,000 off airport landings (and Chuck....a Valdez champion) that their opinions are tainted because they may be paid off? Really?

Tells us of all the failed shocks “he’s seen”........Really? Such disrespect for probably the most experienced people in the country who represent Cubcrafters as dealers who offer their experienced opinions to us. Really?

And based on the vast amount of NON-experience...he has.....he wants us to “influence” the most experience cub builders in the world what to carry and offer in their product line???? Then when people start making experienced comments, he want them to shut up and go back to “just tell Cubcrafters to carry TK1’s”? Really?

I just need to caution anyone reading threads posted here to heed my warning that these “keyboard commandos” comments need to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. Most intelligent people would select a surgeon with lots of experience before letting them operate on them over someone who isn’t even a doctor and the derogatory comments here towards Acme shocks are disgraceful to say the least! Especially coming from someone with ZERO experience WITH EITHER! It’s my understanding that no one would even sell him a set of Acme because of all the negative mouthing he has been doing around his “Keyboard domain”.

I think most people in this forum and who owns a Carbon Cub, are intelligent enough people to see through these types of posts and I can’t just sit here and let it go without my 2 cents worth since I’ve spent a lot of time trying to help people on this forum since I’ve built 5 of these and have flown tailwheel since first starting in Alaska in 1976.

I have flown both and they are both very good. Tony is a great guy with super support for his TK1 product as is Matt McSwain at Acme. I run Acmes and can not say enough good things about them. I think they should have been named “Talons” because they reach out and grab the ground and keep you there. They are more streamline and not nearly as bulky as TK1’s and they have BOTH mechanical springs as well as a gas system.....so if you were to leak out the gas, you are still in business whereas the TK1’s are only gas. Loose the gas on a landing on a mountainside and ........

If you want to follow another thread the keyboard commando started in supercub.org with over 150 responses from very experienced pilots, then go read through it here https://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...light=Tk1+acme.

Sorry, it’s early....not enough coffee yet....and I’m too old to give a shit and sick of these type posts making negative and wrong posts trying to influence people with their vast amount of INexperience. I’ve worked too hard trying to help CC builders on here to let this type of stuff go.

[Daveembry]

".....and this post in particular..." ???

So I guess you are attacking me for for the statements I made?

1. I agreed that both shock systems and owners were very good and did not say anywhere that CC should not offer them (and they should). I do know that ALOT of testing was required by CC for Acme systems to be offered at the factory. I'm sure (As Zach says in a later post) that they would welcome TK1's as well, with the required testing. However it seems you definitely are doing exactly what you said not to do.... expressing a clear preference for TK1 (which is fine...opinions from weathered pilots are great to be shared).

2. I didn't ".....look down (my) long nose at newer brethren....". If you read all the post, the poster was essentially accusing CC dealers of getting kickbacks to promote Acme (which is totally untrue of course); of lots of accidents from Acme, poor construction; sponsorship of planes using them and on and on. Over on Supercup.org it got very nasty with unreal accusations against Acme. Apparently the original, very derogatory and declamatory posts were deleted but here is 1:

Originally Posted by hawgdrvr
The construction of the shocks does make it an easy choice, to me that choice is TK1 Shock Monsters. I've seen far too many fractures and failures of Acme Aero's that even if they were given to me I wouldn't use them, I don't trust them. For anyone using them I highly recommend inspecting the top mount area for fractures in the material. No matter which shock, I will use a safety cable, I bought the one for TK1's, it's cheap insurance.

I don't have any experience landing on TK1's, I trust in those I respect such as the Flying Cowboys that speak highly of Tony and the TK1's all of which use TK1's except for one that is now obviously sponsored by Acme Aero noted by the leading edge and has since changed to Acme's. I have little experience landing on Acme's and yes, they seemed fine, that's not the point, it's the trust and construction is where they lose me, not the performance of the shock itself. I've seen plenty of raving reviews of TK1's as well as Acme on SuperCub.org. Shock performance for both seems great, it comes down to which design do I trust the most which is how I concluded with my choice.

With all due respect anyone that financially benefits from the recommendation either through commission or sponsorship (noted by Acme Aero on their leading edge) is excluded from those I take opinions from other than my own salesman, Chip, who has been fair, balanced, and respectful whom I trust through our conversations. I welcome opinions of fellow pilots (non salesman) here or SuperCub.org but it's moot, I've made my decision based on my research and study of shock failures and also how the company handled those failures. The choice that I will trust is TK1 shock monsters. I have them in hand. the material and design is amazing. With that said, CubCrafters could offer both and let the customer choose the product they are comfortable with and want to spend their money on. The shock choice is a cult in this community for whatever reason and cannot seem to get a fair and balanced discussion most likely due to financial reasons underlying the discussions. That is MY opinion.

So rather this thread turn into a one vs. the other, I have simply asked that CubCrafters consider offering the competing product to allow the customer to choose the landing gear they prefer. I'm not asking for TSO certification, maybe TK1's could only be offered for non certified if it came to that and CubCrafters couldn't or wouldn't want to do the testing desired.

So respectfully, you are wrong. This isn't about "Republican vs Democrat; Vaxxer vs anti-vaxxer; masker vs anti masker; old pilot vs new pilot and Acme shock men vs TK1 shock men." This was about trying to defend against flat out WRONG information being spread with a very clear bias by someone with essentially ZERO experience ON EITHER SYSTEM. I think the poster probably saw this and that is why he deleted his derogatory and incorrect posts. It seems however that this post of yours might just fall in line with what you are saying....clearly divisive.

This thread and this post in particular pretty much sum up America today. Democrat vs Republican, Vaxxer vs anti-vaxxer, masker vs anti masker, old pilot vs new pilot and now finally Acme shock men vs TK1 shock men.

Its a perfectly reasonable request or suggestion to have TK shocks as an option from CC's. They are a great product and many people use them. I don't know why experienced pilots have to look down their long noses at their newer brethren buts its not a rare phenomenon. I wasnt sure if Mark Patey was going to get a dissing in this post for his troubles as well for having the temerity to recommend TK shocks ?

Lots of flights in my SS with the TK shocks and couldn't be happier.
Best single improvement to the a/c since I bought it.
Interestingly I ordered a pair of ACME when I was at Tac Aero and they shipped the wrong model.
Didnt have time to wait for a replacement.

Tony at TK is very good to deal with. Other Cub manufacturers supply them (TK) as a standard options along with the ACME.
America is all about consumer choice - right ?

Ask both companies what percentage of their products get returned under warranty or for post warranty repair.
And yes - get them on the parts list if that's what the people want.




sums

[aeroaddict]

I thought that this topic had been throughly disscused here and on other forums.

TK1 vs. Acme Aero (SEP 2020) (supercub.org)


We can always continue this one to include the new shock absorbing tailwheels!

[hawgdrvr]

I want to reply to this thread ONLY to help those considering buying, those waiting on build, post build on what I've learned since this thread was started by me. I'm not going into any of the drama above, instead I'm going to help educate those that may have questions or want to do things and how it actually works. The biggest problem at CubCrafters which they know is communication. I hope that continues to improve.

CubCrafters is extremely flexible with the experimental aircraft, all that I can speak to is the FX-3 I took delivery of in Aug of 2021. They know they are building dreams and they will work with you to do anything you want to make your dream come true. They are extremely flexible and accommodating, more than most know. They will work with you on custom paint schemes, custom panels, the list goes on. The production has a flow and timeline, anything you want modified typically is done AFTER the final build visit, i.e. airworthiness interview and certification. But you can choose different Garmin components, etc. etc. as long as it fits and they can make it work within their setup.

What you see on the web site is not the end all be all. There are a lot more options than are on the web site which hopefully you'll learn about after extensive research from reviewing the pre-owned web site, info from your dealer, talking to peers, etc. When I got to build week I sat down and a sheet was pulled out with even more choices. What no customer wants is to get to final build week to see their plane and learn of something they could have done from another customer that they had done. You want to go through this once and get it right. I can say I could not be happier with my FX-3, it has everything I wanted, EVERYTHING! thanks to CubCrafters. My build is outlined in another thread about N88NC is home on this site.

The people in Yakima are outstanding. They will work so hard to make what you want happen. They will go above and beyond. For example, I wanted a Carbon Concepts cargo pod which I ordered from Randy. CubCrafters told me "have it sent here, we'll put it on for you" which is beyond awesome. The more I can get done prior to delivery is less I have to chase down for someone to do AFTER delivery. Much less stress for me. I told them I needed brackets for the cargo pod put on prior to covering the fuselage so we don't have to create huge ugly patches to install them after the fact. They did it!

Do your research, extensive research and choose WHAT YOU WANT as it's YOUR PLANE. Take your shocks, tailwheel, whatever to final build or ship it to them, they'll most likely install anything you want and charge you labor if at all. I had my CO monitor installed, a forward looking camera, TK-1 shocks, T-3 tailwheel installed, cargo pod, and it was all done then weight and balance done which is outstanding. If you want a different cargo pod than they offer, that's fine as they did for me. If you want different floats, they will accommodate. Just ask. It is YOUR plane and YOUR dream.

Your best resource are your peers, other customers that went through this process. Reach out to them, pick their brains, learn about their mods. Jeremy at TacAero was a huge help to me in things like "right wing power" for a camera, black faced USB outlet under the panel (instead of silver) and many other things. I went with BRS which wasn't the norm, now it seems they are doing a lot more BRS installs I'm told. BRS is installed after AW cert as well, just like anything else you may want done that can't affect the production flow as each station has a time limit for their work.

I'm super thankful to my peers here such as Turbopilot, TSquared, Andy and more that helped me with my many questions, including the TacAero gang which are a huge help and the training was outstanding. I leaned hard on my peers at delivery and the journey home that helped me with routing, Garmin items I wasn't familiar with, getting ForeFlight sounds in my Bose headset (so many different bluetooth connections), getting a hangar at FBO's at each stop and courtesy cars, things I was not fluent in having not flown for 20 years prior to this and all prior time was mainly military. Peers made it happen and I'm willing to help anyone that needs help as well. Honorable mentions obviously go out to Zach and Laceigh and yes, things can change after build week and even after final build such as I finally decided to get the tail checkerboarded. They have the "can do" mentality unless there is some circumstance that it just can't happen.

So again, CubCrafters is extremely flexible and will make your dreams come true to the best of their ability. Just ask. The web site and order form is NOT the end all be all. You want something, I'm sure they will make it happen.

Good luck and share your experiences so others can learn from it.

[Scouter]

So far I decided to stay out of this, I know what works for me, and looks like the TK1 works for you. I have had the great fortune of being a customer of Acme for several years and several planes and I have a couple observations
There isnt another airplane/aerospace company like them when it comes to customer service. I have used them on 3 different SS. I have participated in a few STOL events and have seen their whole team making the rounds and helping out customers. Late last year I got an email invite to attend a flyin/ open house at their new facility in NC. Then I got a personal call from Matt making sure I got the invite. I inquired about a local hotel orB&B to stay at, and Matt said you will stay with us at the new facility in one of the upstairs bedrooms, wed love to have you. If you didnt attend the open house you missed a good one. Free food and lots of flying and even a wedding thrown in made it a perfect day
I had picked up a used Sport cub about 60 miles from Acme and flew it down. I had to leave it to get home for an imortant event. acme guys put it in the hangar and took care of it until I could come get it. A month or 5 they didnt care. As an aside, they will provide space, tools, parts and expertise for free (well maybe not the parts)if you have a special project to work on in their facility. these are special folks, and I cant thank Matt, Eric, Chris, Connie and the whole gang at Acme enough for their hospitality. All of us who do business with them become one of the family. They will give you shocks to use while yours are being built. They will overnight FEDEX stuff to you when you need it yesterday. I invite other aircraft compainies to follow ther lead. Great folks who care about you and the products that you have bought from them

Im sorry that you seem to have blown out your bridges ahead of yourself with this whole thread. You have limited your exposure to some of the most talented folks out there. An afternoon of flying with Chuck Kinberger would have showed you the real potential in that FX3. Im sure you have your own reasons and methods, but you will be at a loss
That said I would love to check out your fx3 on my way up from FL to Maine in the spring. It sounds like a real beauty.

Jim