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Thread: Offer TK1 Shock Monsters as an option for customers

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Offer TK1 Shock Monsters as an option for customers

    Caution: “KEYBOARD COMMANDO” in action in this thread.

    Someone who has done a dozen or so landings in a tailwheel.....

    Has never owned either of the shock systems mentioned.....

    Yet wants to tell us all how bad or good they are and tells people with maybe 10,000 off airport landings (and Chuck....a Valdez champion) that their opinions are tainted because they may be paid off? Really?

    Tells us of all the failed shocks “he’s seen”........Really? Such disrespect for probably the most experienced people in the country who represent Cubcrafters as dealers who offer their experienced opinions to us. Really?

    And based on the vast amount of NON-experience...he has.....he wants us to “influence” the most experience cub builders in the world what to carry and offer in their product line???? Then when people start making experienced comments, he want them to shut up and go back to “just tell Cubcrafters to carry TK1’s”? Really?

    I just need to caution anyone reading threads posted here to heed my warning that these “keyboard commandos” comments need to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. Most intelligent people would select a surgeon with lots of experience before letting them operate on them over someone who isn’t even a doctor and the derogatory comments here towards Acme shocks are disgraceful to say the least! Especially coming from someone with ZERO experience WITH EITHER! It’s my understanding that no one would even sell him a set of Acme because of all the negative mouthing he has been doing around his “Keyboard domain”.

    I think most people in this forum and who owns a Carbon Cub, are intelligent enough people to see through these types of posts and I can’t just sit here and let it go without my 2 cents worth since I’ve spent a lot of time trying to help people on this forum since I’ve built 5 of these and have flown tailwheel since first starting in Alaska in 1976.

    I have flown both and they are both very good. Tony is a great guy with super support for his TK1 product as is Matt McSwain at Acme. I run Acmes and can not say enough good things about them. I think they should have been named “Talons” because they reach out and grab the ground and keep you there. They are more streamline and not nearly as bulky as TK1’s and they have BOTH mechanical springs as well as a gas system.....so if you were to leak out the gas, you are still in business whereas the TK1’s are only gas. Loose the gas on a landing on a mountainside and ........

    If you want to follow another thread the keyboard commando started in supercub.org with over 150 responses from very experienced pilots, then go read through it here https://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...light=Tk1+acme.

    Sorry, it’s early....not enough coffee yet....and I’m too old to give a shit and sick of these type posts making negative and wrong posts trying to influence people with their vast amount of INexperience. I’ve worked too hard trying to help CC builders on here to let this type of stuff go.
    Last edited by Daveembry; 02-03-2021 at 04:12 AM.
    Dave Embry
    "You only live once.......but if you do it right.........once is enough."..

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Offer TK1 Shock Monsters as an option for customers

    Quote Originally Posted by hawgdrvr View Post
    CubCrafters,

    Please continue to expand the options for customers to choose such as landing gear options by TK1 racing. Tony has been outstanding to work with, I have great trust in this product used by many of those we see often sharing the backcountry experience. Please test as needed and allow TK1's as an option for purchase. Competition is good for the consumer.

    https://store.tk1racing.com/
    Kind of funny when I make a suggestion to CubCrafters, repeating the above via quote, that it turns into a one product vs. another. I appreciate the passion of those that enjoy their Acme's, good for you. Some choose other products than your choice, some should respect that and appreciate both are great vendors as well as Beringer for yet another option in the marketspace. I went to another forum and respectfully asked opinions between the two, never took a stance of experience hence my questions. I have a very experienced friend who's owned multiple Carbon Cubs that provided me interesting research that led me to ask questions as any prospective buyer should research to determine the solution desired. But there just like here the cult emerges and can't seem to appreciate or respect such questions that go against their following. You lose complete sight of the question of the thread and instead it turns into a product battle.

    It is great to see those that can reply with respect and dignity, and others who could use some help. I remind you to read the original post, a suggestion to CubCrafters to offer choice. At no time was this thread intended to be a one vs. the other.
    Last edited by hawgdrvr; 02-03-2021 at 05:21 AM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Andy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Offer TK1 Shock Monsters as an option for customers

    The second build visit for an FX-3 will include assembly work on the landing gear. I see no reason that CubCrafters would not let you fit TK1 shocks at this time. (The factory build is complete and signed off by QA before the airplane goes to the completion center. At the completion center the airplane is partially dismantled so the builder can put it back together again.)

    The downside is that you will have paid for bungee gear that you don't need. I'd suggest that you specify the bungees are unpainted and request that CubCrafters buy them back from you when removed.

    Whatever you do please don't start your flyoff with bungee gear if you have only flown an FX-3 on AcmeAero shocks. There is nothing wrong with the stock bungee gear as long as you always make perfect, zero side load, zero sink rate landings. Several have commented that AcmeAero make a pilot look far better than they really are and caution about returning to bungees.

    I have only seen evidence of 2 AcmeAero failures and I have seen no analysis of either. If there have been more failures I'd like to hear about them in a private message.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Offer TK1 Shock Monsters as an option for customers

    [QUOTE=Andy;26443]The second build visit for an FX-3 will include assembly work on the landing gear. I see no reason that CubCrafters would not let you fit TK1 shocks at this time. (The factory build is complete and signed off by QA before the airplane goes to the completion center. At the completion center the airplane is partially dismantled so the builder can put it back together again.)


    We are unable to complete test flights with a system on the plane that we haven't tested in house. After delivery to the customer or their representative, they can choose to put on what they prefer.
    Last edited by Zach Davidson; 02-03-2021 at 01:30 PM.
    Parts Sales
    Cub Crafters
    (509)367-5201
    zach.davidson@cubcrafters.com

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Offer TK1 Shock Monsters as an option for customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    The second build visit for an FX-3 will include assembly work on the landing gear. I see no reason that CubCrafters would not let you fit TK1 shocks at this time. (The factory build is complete and signed off by QA before the airplane goes to the completion center. At the completion center the airplane is partially dismantled so the builder can put it back together again.)

    The downside is that you will have paid for bungee gear that you don't need. I'd suggest that you specify the bungees are unpainted and request that CubCrafters buy them back from you when removed.

    Whatever you do please don't start your flyoff with bungee gear if you have only flown an FX-3 on AcmeAero shocks. There is nothing wrong with the stock bungee gear as long as you always make perfect, zero side load, zero sink rate landings. Several have commented that AcmeAero make a pilot look far better than they really are and caution about returning to bungees.

    I have only seen evidence of 2 AcmeAero failures and I have seen no analysis of either. If there have been more failures I'd like to hear about them in a private message.
    Thanks Andy, great input as always. I think the problem is after final build week is the FAA part and I guess too CubCrafters doing the initial flights? I did my TW endorsement on bungees, technically that would put me near 200 landings Haha, yeah, I don't want to do that again if I can avoid it. And I won't. I think CubCrafters will install the TK1's for me (and T3 tailwheel) after cert and prior to delivery. If all else fails I'll have TacAero install them for me but I don't plan to fly without them. I recognize my TW inexperience and will take all the help I can get.

  6. #26
    Senior Member 40m's Avatar
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    Default Re: Offer TK1 Shock Monsters as an option for customers

    [QUOTE=hawgdrvr;26419]The construction of the shocks does make it an easy choice, to me that choice is TK1 Shock Monsters. I've seen far too many fractures and failures of Acme Aero's that even if they were given to me I wouldn't use them, I don't trust them.

    It's statements like this on these forums which discredit most anything you have to offer. You're dealing with mechanics and pilots with decades of experience and thousands of flight hours in tailwheel aircraft. How many fractures and failures have you seen?
    I land on Gen3's often, how many? Last week 67 times, wheels 8:50's, skis, ice, snow and pavement. I trust them to cover up for my mistakes, I'm the weak link. When you get started it will be far more about you than your gear! Praising your choice is good, dissing others not so much.

    Re: Thread title.
    I am pleased that Cub Crafters is willing to offer aftermarket products however I'm more pleased in knowing it is only after extensive research, evaluation and input from pilots closely affiliated with the company. I fly experimental category by choice but I'm comforted knowing someone with more knowledge and experience was the test pilot. Thank you CC.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Andy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Offer TK1 Shock Monsters as an option for customers

    Well, my input on when to fit TK1 was not so great. Thanks for the correction Zach!

  8. #28
    Senior Member turbopilot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Offer TK1 Shock Monsters as an option for customers

    Very interesting thread. I have been flying Carbon Cubs for 11 years. No other subject about these airplanes evokes more emotion and misinformation than various solutions to eliminate these awful bungees from the 80 year old Piper Cub legacy landing gear system. Owners pluck down $3,000+ to get rid of the bungees, then immediately go to a corner and vigorously defend the choice made, often with no real experience with any of the other options.

    And yet the manufacturer keeps making these airplanes with bungees as standard equipment (except XCub).
    Last edited by turbopilot; 02-03-2021 at 07:52 AM.
    Bob Anderson, CC11-00435, N94RA

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Offer TK1 Shock Monsters as an option for customers

    What Glenn said.
    Last edited by aeroaddict; 02-03-2021 at 09:49 AM.
    Dan Arnold
    KEUL

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Offer TK1 Shock Monsters as an option for customers

    Every landing gear suspension has both advantages and disadvantages. Dampening, travel, reliability, simplicity, weight, parasitic drag, cost, maintainability, certification status, etc. are all different between the different products offered, and each gear type offered has advantages in some areas over the others depending on the owners mission. The key thing is that the suspension itself is only one component in in an overall system designed to safely absorb landing loads, especially in adverse circumstances or in the rough terrain these aircraft are designed for, and there is more than one way to get that done. The different options are a great discussion to have, but please keep it respectful.

    For the OP, thank you for being one of our customers! That's awesome and we very much appreciate your confidence in our company as expressed by your aircraft purchase. Yes, we fully intend to continue to expand the range of aftermarket options we offer here at the Factory. Currently we offer bungee, bungee w/hydrasorb, AOSS, ACME Gen 3 Black Ops, spring aluminum in a couple different configurations, and in house designed training link for the NX. That's already a pretty wide range of options in different airframes that covers 99% of all missions our customers use these airplanes for, but we're always considering other products to offer too, especially those requested by our customers.

    As has been noted, CubCrafters does want to validate that the aftermarket products we install on aircraft we manufacture are both safe and effective. Sometimes we do that by reviewing the vendor's own product testing and QA processes, and sometimes we do that through our own testing here in our development lab.

    However, that being said, please also keep in mind it's sometimes a commercial decision on the part of the aftermarket vendor to sell their products retail direct to the consumer instead of offering that product through an OEM like CubCrafters. For some small specialty niche companies in General Aviation it just makes more financial sense to keep their products as a true aftermarket offering instead of selling it to an OEM at a discount for resale to the consumer, resulting in less revenue per unit to the vendor. Yes, that circumstance might ultimately cost the consumer a little more, but those extra margin dollars can be important to keep a small specialty product manufacturer in business.

    I'm probably one of the few out there that has personally flown each aftermarket suspension offered. So what's my personal opinion on TK-1 vs ACME vs AOSS vs Berringer? How about... they all work best when bolted onto a CubCrafters airplane! Seriously though, I do have confidence in the suspension choices we offer here, but I also know many of our customers have had success with some of the other aftermarket choices that CubCrafters doesn't or can't offer.

    Come visit us at the factory, talk to one of our CSC's, or say hello at one of the 2021 events like Sun n' Fun, Oshkosh, or High Sierra. I'm always happy to share my thoughts and experience on the advantages and disadvantages of different setups.
    Last edited by Brad Damm; 02-05-2021 at 11:04 AM.
    Brad Damm - Vice President of Sales and Marketing
    CubCrafters - Yakima, Washington
    Office: (509) 248-9491
    Cell: (509) 961-2313

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