Engine management

[seastar]

I have had some severe engine problems with the ECI Titan X340 in my CC.
I won't go in to that issue in this post.
However, in researching the issue I had a long talk with technical reps at ECI and uncovered some information not provided by CubCrafters that I believe should be.
I learned some information about breaking in a new engine that is not provided to owners by CubCrafters.
I also learned that there have been some issues with cooling baffles in older aircraft that can be cured with adjustment.
I also learned that the common practice of pulling the throttle all the way back opposite the numbers when landing, as many Cub drivers have been trained to do, can cause major damage to the engine.
It's not a cooling issue but a ring flutter issue that can damage the piston ring lands and it can happen at any engine hours according to ECI.
I think CubCrafters should modify their pilots manual to include some information about break in and throttle management as well as issue a service bulletin for legacy aircraft about changing the baffles.

What say you CubCrafters?
Bill

[seastar]

I at least expected someone to reply.
i guess not.
Bill

[randylervold]

I have had some severe engine problems with the ECI Titan X340 in my CC.
I won't go in to that issue in this post.
However, in researching the issue I had a long talk with technical reps at ECI and uncovered some information not provided by CubCrafters that I believe should be.
I learned some information about breaking in a new engine that is not provided to owners by CubCrafters.
I also learned that there have been some issues with cooling baffles in older aircraft that can be cured with adjustment.
I also learned that the common practice of pulling the throttle all the way back opposite the numbers when landing, as many Cub drivers have been trained to do, can cause major damage to the engine.
It's not a cooling issue but a ring flutter issue that can damage the piston ring lands and it can happen at any engine hours according to ECI.
I think CubCrafters should modify their pilots manual to include some information about break in and throttle management as well as issue a service bulletin for legacy aircraft about changing the baffles.

What say you CubCrafters?
Bill

Hi Bill,

Sorry for not perusing the forms more regularly. Couple of things: first, I suspect that the information we provide with aircraft deliveries these days is more complete than it was when you took delivery of yours. I'm in Europe now and can't check on what all we include with delivery documentation, but I know it is far more extensive. Second thing, while we've always enjoyed a great working relationship with ECi they not always been known for the best or most consistent communication. One can often get several different technical opinions from various staff members. You may be aware that they were purchased by CMG/CMI (Continental) the day before AirVenture this year and are currently in the process of being re-organized. I believe the additional resources and organization that CMI will bring to the business in assimilating ECi will be beneficial. As time goes on we'll endeavor to provide more comprehensive and cohesive engine operation information.

BTW, the ECi name is now retired, their Titan name remains so our engines are now "Titan by Continental".

[seastar]

Thanks Randy. I appreciate the response.
My problem is I have 4 new cylinders to break in and am now not sure how it should be done.
Should I take the advice I received from Titan or is there some procedure that CubCrafters recommends that I am not aware of?
Essentially Titan recommends running the engine at 65-75% power for 50 hours.
Of course no one (including CubCrafters) provides power curves for that kind of power because of the Light Sport limits. That leaves me and others guessing.
Titan also said that any cylinder head temperature up to 450 was OK for sustained operation.
Seems a bit high but they insisted it was OK.

Titan also says that most damage occurs if the power is pulled all the way back in flight when landing causing the prop to drive the engine.
Supposedly that causes ring flutter and damages the piston, the rings and the cylinder walls.
Thats what I suspect caused the damage to my engine.
I learned to fly in a J3 and was trained to pull the power back all the way opposite the numbers and that's what I have always done. Titan says that will damage any engine.
Maybe someone else at the factory can chime in since you are in Europe?
Bill

[Mark Albery]

Hi Bill,

My first time posting here, so quick intro:
I'm Hayward based RV-4 pilot and just ordered an EX-2 kit for December delivery.

My understanding is that the relatively high power requirement for break in is to provide a high piston pressure to help the rings seat and provide effective oil control. That would normally mean low altitudes and preferably 75% power, but always keeping temperatures in limits. Generally oil consumption comes down quite rapidly in the first 20 hours or so and when it's stabilised you can go back to normal operation. That does seem to conflict with the 5 minute power limit for LSA. I don't know what the bore material is on the 340 engine. Maybe they have found a way of achieving a good break in while using lower manifold pressures.

As for not bringing power back to idle when landing. That is normal practice in pretty much all small piston aircraft except maybe the geared engines. I think if it was a problem, there would be lots of flying school aircraft doing 6-8 landings per hour that would be sitting in the shop having their rings replaced. Unless you can find supporting arguments, I'd treat that as "OWT".

I'd recommend reading Mike Busch's 'Savvy Aviator' articles for some good common sense on engine operation.

[v.schmidt]

Cub Crafters and ECi worked together to produce an operations manual for the 340CC (view here). This is a great reference as it has been approved by both companies. I highly encourage you take a look through it.

Titan also has an Engine Break-In Instruction manual (view here) that has good material to review.

Hopefully this helps!

[randylervold]

My understanding is that the relatively high power requirement for break in is to provide a high piston pressure to help the rings seat and provide effective oil control. That would normally mean low altitudes and preferably 75% power, but always keeping temperatures in limits. Generally oil consumption comes down quite rapidly in the first 20 hours or so and when it's stabilised you can go back to normal operation. That does seem to conflict with the 5 minute power limit for LSA. I don't know what the bore material is on the 340 engine. Maybe they have found a way of achieving a good break in while using lower manifold pressures.

As for not bringing power back to idle when landing. That is normal practice in pretty much all small piston aircraft except maybe the geared engines. I think if it was a problem, there would be lots of flying school aircraft doing 6-8 landings per hour that would be sitting in the shop having their rings replaced. Unless you can find supporting arguments, I'd treat that as "OWT".

I'd recommend reading Mike Busch's 'Savvy Aviator' articles for some good common sense on engine operation.

Bill,

Good advice above, and of the two manuals Victoria provided links to forget the first one as far as break-in is concerned, the second one is a good manual. Essentially run it hard for the early hours to the extent that CHTs allow. 450° is the limit for climb and 425° us the limit for cruise. The earlier hours are the most important.

I believe we provide both of these manuals with delivery now but I'd need to check, still in Europe.

[Mark Albery]

I see that does give rise to a conundrum:
From the break-in instructions -

7. Level off at altitude and maintain 75% power for at least 30 minutes. Duringthe first 50 hours of the break‐in period, piston rings will seat best if cruise ismaintained at 65% to 75% power

And from the operations manual -

Maximum Continuous horsepower 80

So one is telling you to maintain 65-75% power for 30 minutes and the other is telling you to reduce to 45% power after 5 minutes!

In reality, I suppose that the CC340 is quite capable of continuous high power and the manual restriction is an artifact of complying with LSA limitations. It seems pretty unlikely that anyone would get into trouble for exceeding the LSA limit for break-in, but it's still a contradiction.

[Jon Delamarter]

Cub Crafters publishes a "CC340 Break-In Procedure", attached here. We started distributing this with each new airplane this past spring. It combines pertinent data from ECi's document with additional useful information.

[seastar]

Cub Crafters publishes a "CC340 Break-In Procedure", attached here. We started distributing this with each new airplane this past spring. It combines pertinent data from ECi's document with additional useful information.

Thanks Jon for posting the procedure.
I wish you had told me about this when we were discussing the cylinder failure on the phone.
This break in procedure mostly agrees with the advice I received from Titan (ECI).
To bad it was years too late to help me prevent severe damage to my engine.
My learning curve on this airplane has been very very steep with little help from the factory.
I have about 10 hours on the new cylinders and hope they stand up better than the originals.
In case you can't tell, I am very upset over this whole cylinder failure issue.
I have been very patient with the miriad airframe failures on this aircraft but this engine problem has really gotten to me.
Bill
By the way I got some RPM vs % power from Lycoming that should work for the 340.