Can the Titan 340CC use mogas?

[kemper28]

Jason, the two failures Jon mentioned were not in the US, rather the middle east. Therein lies the problem -- in the US our mogas is consistent and refined to a standard we know, but when you start getting into other non-US markets it's jungle rules (no pun intended). With it's 9.0-1 compression and it's double electronic ignition with more advanced timing than magnetos you get a challenging environment for preventing detonation with fuel of unknown octane. Then of course there's the ethanol issue.

Indeed quite a few CC340 owners have used PREMIUM mogas in the US with acceptable results, but we can't and won't recommend it because 1) we have customers all over the world with dubious fuel quality, and 2) the well documented dangers of ethanol in aviation applications.

Randy, thanks for the info I figured it had to be something like this... Thanks a bunch...

Don't have the S7 anymore Jon..

While I have your attention, has anyone sent their 340 to say lycon for a port and polish that you guys know of? Also, does my 340 that is ordered with an EX-2 kit have a one year warranty from cub crafters?

Thanks,

Jason

[randylervold]

While I have your attention, has anyone sent their 340 to say lycon for a port and polish that you guys know of? Also, does my 340 that is ordered with an EX-2 kit have a one year warranty from cub crafters?

I do seem to recall that a builder had Lycon do head work for him, can't remember who or the details. If you ordered an engine with your EX-2 then that is most likely an Aero Sport Power engine and I believe comes with a three year warranty from first start, I know the Titan engines do.

[kemper28]

I do seem to recall that a builder had Lycon do head work for him, can't remember who or the details. If you ordered an engine with your EX-2 then that is most likely an Aero Sport Power engine and I believe comes with a three year warranty from first start, I know the Titan engines do.

I'll double check with Mitch when I talk to him this week. That's awesome if I get a 3 year warranty...

Thanks,

Jason

[terry]

I'll double check with Mitch when I talk to him this week. That's awesome if I get a 3 year warranty...

Thanks,

Jason

Thanks guys for the feedback, as I was also aware of a number of 340cc running Premium Mogas , and put the question out there to get feedback, AND IT WORKS..

i have since researhed into the question of "Octane" in depth, and found it not to be "jungle Rules" ( Sorry Boss/Randy) or quality issues with consistency of octane in different countries, but different " Measurement methods" which are complex when not understood with no method recognised over another.

MEASUREMENT METHODS

Anti Knock Index (AKI )

Reseach octane number (RON )

Motor octane number (MON )

The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the RESEACH OCTANE NUMBER (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel in a test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing the results with those for iso-octane and n-heptane.

Another type of octane rating, called MOTOR OCTANE NUMBER ( MON), is determined at 900 rpm engine speed, instead of the 600 rpm for RON. MON testing uses a similar test engine to that used in RON testing,but with a preheated fuel mixture, higher engine speed, and variable ignition timing to further stress the fuel's knock resistance.
Dependind on the composition of the fuel , the MON of a modern pump gasoline will be about 8 to 10 octane lower than the RON, but there is no direct link between RON and MON.Pump gasoline spec's typically require both a min RON and min MON.
in most countries including Australia,New Zealand and all those in Europe, the "headline"octane rating shown on the pump is the RON, but in Canada,United States, Brazil, and some other countries, the headline number is the average of the RON and thee MON, called the ANTI-KNOCK INDEX ( AKI ), and often written on pumps as ( R+M) /2.It may also be called the POST OCTANE NUMBER(PON).

Difference between RON,MON,and AKI
Because of the 8-12 octane number difference between RON and MON noted above, the AKI shown in Canada and the States is 4-6 octane numbers lower than elsewhere in the world for the same fuel.
This difference between RON and MON is known as the fuel's Sensitivity,and is not typically published for those countries that use the Anti-Knock Index labelling system.

So Premium 95 RON Octane as measured in N Z = Premium 91 AKI Octane as measured in th U S.

AVIATION GASOLINE OCTANE RATINGS.

Gasoline used in piston aircraft common in general aviation have slightly different methods of measuring the octane of the fuel. Similar to the AKI , it has two different ratings,although it is referred to only by the lower number of the two.One is referred to as the "Aviation Lean" rating and is the same Es the MON of the fuel up to 100. The second is the "Aviation Rich" rating and corresponds to the octane rating of a test engine under forced induction operation common in high-performance and military piston aircraft. This utilises a supercharger, and uses a significantly richer fuel/air ratio for improved detonation resistance.
The most commonly used current fuel, 100LL, has an aviation lean of 100 octane,and an aviation rich rating of 130 octane.


So given the above information, I hope it helps a little as me, as my Big finger is going NUMB .....
With all this / Going Flying..100LL

Happy Flying as we head into summer in N Z and Ski's Up North

"Keep the dirty side down"

Terry

[skytour]

The Titan 340 is sensitive to octane and lead. Be mindful to both otherwise engine damage may occur. The Titan 340 comes in two versions; a high compression version (9.0:1, 180 hp) and a special order low compression version (8.5:1, 172 hp). The minimum octane for the high compression engine is 93 octane unleaded MOGAS and for the low compression engine it is 91 octane unleaded MOGAS. ASTM defines MOGAS as ethanol-free gasoline. In some countries automobile gas may be ethanol-free and meet the ASTM standard for MOGAS but most service stations in the United States dispense gasoline with ethanol, and by ASTM standard, THIS IS NOT MOGAS! MOGAS is specifically ethanol-free to prevent issues associated with ethanol in aviation. If you are flying an experimental, in an pinch, can substitute automobile gas with up to 10% ethanol as long as it meets the minimum 93 octane or 91 octane for each version of the 340.

The Titan 340 is sensitive to lead in either having too much lead or too little can cause harm. Burning exclusively 100LL in either version of the engine may result in lead fouled plugs or an early top overhaul due to excessive lead accumulation. Proper leaning on taxi and cruise may reduce these issues along with the use of a lead scavenger.

On the other hand, exclusive use of unleaded MOGAS, even with proper octane, may cause valve seat recession. Should always break in a 340 with 100LL to ensure proper valve seating. Once the engine is broken in, it still needs a tad bit of lead to keep the valves seated. To prevent these valve issues, Peterson in their Autogas STC recommends using a mix of 25% 100LL with 75% ethanol-free MOGAS or burning a one tankful of 100LL every 75 hours to replace the lead on the valve seats.

In experimental applications, Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) may be the solution for too much or too little lead. MMO has both lead scavenging and top end lubrication characteristics. If running exclusively 100LL, MMO may reduce lead accumulation. If running primarily unleaded MOGAS, MMO may provide some top end lubrication and make up for the lack of lead and its valve stem lubrication properties.

Be mindful of octane, lead and ethanol. Each has its problems. Inadequate octane will result in detonation. Too much lead will result in fouled plugs and an early top overhaul. Too little lead can destroy an engine in a few hours due to improper valve seating. Ethanol can result in water accumulation, vapor lock, fuel system issues, corrosion, and reduced shelf life. Choose wisely.