Garmin Synthetic Vision in the Carbon Cub?

[turbopilot]

OK, Bob, just added up everything and whole system hardware was $13,377.00 including servos. I have no idea what Cubcrafters would charge to install a system like this. But I am sure it would be a substantial investment. I had to make custom brackets to install these parts. Had to make several harnesses also. Unless it was something you could do yourself, I wouldn't doubt a tab close to $25,000 from them.

Richard, great input. You are a valuable resource. Pretty much agrees with my experience installing avionics into "store bought" airplanes over the years. Often labor content is very close to cost of the hardware.

[turbopilot]

Continuing on the quest of making the Retina iPad Mini the functional equivalent of a Dynon glass cockpit. What is really missing is good air data functionality (pitot and static sensors on the airplane) and a steady source of magnetic compass data.

Levil makes the iLevil AW. This box will take in a pitot/static connection, ADS-B, GPS and AHRS data then sent it to an iPad for display. I have confirmed that WingX Pro 7 will display actual pitot/static derived airspeed and altitude on the iPad using the iLevil AW box. However, since there is no stable magnetic compass source it cannot display a good winds aloft vector arrow. Apparently the magnetic sensors in the iPad and/or the iLevil AW are not stable enough to compute good real time winds aloft data.

So close. I am sure someone will fill this gap in time.

Continuing to look for ways to do the same thing without spending 10 to 15 more aviation units than necessary.

[ceslaw]

Bob

i have some limited experience using both a 696 and an iPad mini in the cockpit at the same time. The 796 and 696 should have similar brightness. The biggest issue with the iPad mini was not necessarily its technical ability (with appropriate add ons) but rather the brightness of its screen. As a secondary source it is great but I would not want to rely upon it as the sole GPS device. Sunlight makes it just too hard to see too often. iPad works great for tapping out a reply to this thread in front of the TV. Not so great in bright sunlight.

Chuck

[turbopilot]

Bob

i have some limited experience using both a 696 and an iPad mini in the cockpit at the same time. The 796 and 696 should have similar brightness. The biggest issue with the iPad mini was not necessarily its technical ability (with appropriate add ons) but rather the brightness of its screen. As a secondary source it is great but I would not want to rely upon it as the sole GPS device. Sunlight makes it just too hard to see too often. iPad works great for tapping out a reply to this thread in front of the TV. Not so great in bright sunlight.

Chuck

Thanks Chuck. I have been using the larger version of the iPad in the Carbon Cub since the iPad came out. I typically used a thigh pad mount running ForeFlight. There were times with very bright sunlight coming through skylight when it was hard to read the iPad at the brightest setting. However, the biggest issue with both versions of iPad is the highly reflective screens. There are anti-glare screen protectors that work well on the iPad. I have never tried to view the iPad sitting on the vertical instrument panel. That could be different.

As to single source of GPS, my backup device is the iPhone 5S in my pocket which has essentially the same chip set as the Retina iPad Mini. Given those two devices on board, both backed up by long lasting batteries it is hard to imagine a scenario where you could not have a way to navigate.

How does the brightness (full bright) of the 796 compare with the iPad Mini in your experience?

[EVRoosevelt]

I have an Advanced Flight Systems 5500 has synthetic vision and traffic (TIS) and weather, GPS and all the engine inst. and it works great here is a picture of it. The price is around $11,000.00
EV

[DRL]

I have never seen a SkyView system installed. I have heard it has been installed in a CC. Rumors are the price tag was around $25,000. The problem with all these options is that it is very hard to appreciate the value equation without actually using the systems.

Have not made any decisions. Just tossing up ideas until I have to make a final choice.

The way I fly the Carbon Cub an iPad Mini in the World VFR panel would be more than enough for me. But I do want that darn wind vector.

This is a Skyview system in the Carbon Cub EX we are building. We started with the "My Panel" option, without the radios and instruments, we used the larger panel for the 10" Skyview, Dynon's Transponder, AOA, ADS-B, ICom 210, etc. All of this was about 20T for parts, but add in our labor, and we are well over 100T, just the paint was 300T, we are very expensive labor.

DRL
N439 Ex #16

[ceslaw]

Bob

Here is an interesting thread comparing the iPad and the 796.

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=80543

Chuck

[turbopilot]

Well it appears there is another reason not to consider the Retina iPad Mini in the World VFR panel. I have been reading the manuals for the Trig TT21 Transponder. No experience with Trig equipment but this little Mode S transponder seems to be a very capable unit. The Trig TT21/22 transponders can do ADS-OUT and TIS-IN. The Garmin GTX 327 which is included in the Executive Panel option is an A/C transponder with no ADS/TIS capability.

I don't have the wiring diagrams for the World VFR panel option in the Carbon Cub but based on the the manuals for the Garmin 796 and the TT21, it appears the Garmin 796 can support the GPS and TIS requirements of the TT21 Mode S transponder. If true then the World VFR Panel equipped Carbon Cub with the 796/TT21 should be outputting position using ADS-B. Also the Garmin 796 can display TIS traffic if I am reading the documentation correctly.

I don't see any way to support the ADS-B requirements of the TT21 or display TIS traffic by using a Retina iPad Mini in place of the Garmin 796.

Doing my best to read the documentation and put the facts together. Anyone with real world experience please chime in.

This has been a very instructive thread so far for me.

[fr0gpil0t]

Bob,

The only question I have is I think for ADS-B out you need a certified GPS source - up to now I've only seen Garmin waas panel mounted units as qualifying. So I don't think you will be able to use a 796 as a GPS source. There seems to be a hole in the market for a reasonably priced GPS source for ADS-B out.

http://www.trig-avionics.com/us-adsb.html

Robert
PS Trig a British company that's why it's good ;-) Interesting article about them and their history in the AEA Avionics magazine a couple of months ago

[turbopilot]

Bob,

The only question I have is I think for ADS-B out you need a certified GPS source - up to now I've only seen Garmin waas panel mounted units as qualifying. So I don't think you will be able to use a 796 as a GPS source. There seems to be a hole in the market for a reasonably priced GPS source for ADS-B out.

http://www.trig-avionics.com/us-adsb.html

Robert
PS Trig a British company that's why it's good ;-) Interesting article about them and their history in the AEA Avionics magazine a couple of months ago

Robert, I think you are right. Below is the detail from the TT21 manual. I looked at all of the specifications on line about the Garmin GPS796. I can find no discussion about the "DO-178B" level certification, though the 796 does have a GPS out line.


5.6.9 GPS Position Input

The GPS position input is required to support ADS-B functionality. The GPSposition input is an RS232 input to the transponder. The ADS-B features are optional – no GPS is required for normal Mode S Elementary Surveillance. The TT21/TT22 GPS input can recognise the following protocols:

• Industry standard “Aviation” protocol
• NMEA 0183 protocol
• Freeflight and NexNav GPS proprietary protocols
• Garmin ADS-B protocol

The interface speed can be selected between 4800, 9600 and 19200 bps. Some of the protocols listed above may not contain all the required data for acompliant ADS-B message, depending on the intended airspace regulations.For further information refer to Section 12 (ADS-B Compliance) of this manual.

6.1.10 GPS Certification Level

An important metric for ADS-B ground system behaviour is the SDA orSystem Design Assurance level. It is intended to reflect the probability that the GPS position source is providing erroneous information, and is based onthe certification standard that was used by the GPS vendor. This will beindicated in the form of a letter code (A to D) on the data plate or installationdocumentation for the GPS in accordance with the standards DO-178B andDO-254, for example “DO-178B level C”. If both standards are reported butat different levels, use the lower standard (higher letter).