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Thread: Angle of Attack Indicator

  1. #1
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    Default Angle of Attack Indicator

    Does anyone fly with an angle of attack indicator on a Carbon Cub? If so, what type do you use, and do you recommend it? Are there any particular angle of attack indicators suggested for the Carbon Cub? If so, which ones?

    Thanks.

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    Senior Member randylervold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Angle of Attack Indicator

    Flying by reference to an AOA indication system certainly has merit, just ask any Navy pilot. However it is best used in aircraft that are faster, where stall speeds are higher, where stalls are more abrupt, and where there is less feedback or "feel" than a Cub, especially a Carbon Cub (stalls even slower than a Super Cub). We've installed a couple of Dynons and they did not not work out, primarily due to the pitot tube placement.

    My own opinion is that AOA instrumentation is of marginal utility in slow planes like this, and further that some money invested in a good backcountry flying course will make you safer than an AOA instrument. You might consider spending some time at Lori MacNichol's school in McCall, ID... http://www.mountaincanyonflying.com/
    Randy Lervold

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    Default Re: Angle of Attack Indicator

    Agree with Randy and Having attended Lori's Mountain/Canyon Safari in Bluff Utah last Spring, I can highly HIGHLY recommend it. You fly everyday with a instructor backseater teaching your real life back country techniques that will make you a better pilot regardless of your skill set and you will really learn how to squeeze max performance out of your plane both for take off but especially for landing techniques. On top of that great people great time and of course the flying experience and scenery in Canyon Lands, Moab, Arches and Monument valley are over the top. Best Gary

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    Default Re: Angle of Attack Indicator

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sanford View Post
    Does anyone fly with an angle of attack indicator on a Carbon Cub? If so, what type do you use, and do you recommend it? Are there any particular angle of attack indicators suggested for the Carbon Cub? If so, which ones?

    Thanks.
    here is one in a maule. I think they have merit, but looking at the wing angle is just as easy once you get used to it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFbqCHhtlFI

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    Administrator Pete D's Avatar
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    Default Re: Angle of Attack Indicator

    Dynon has an AOA available for the D180 and Skyview systems. Not only does it have a display on the screen but if the audio is hooked up it has a "beep beep beep" tone that gradually gets closer together and turns into a steady tone when the wing stops flying.

    I have not had a chance to fly a CC with this system but it sounds like it would be pretty neat as you can keep looking outside and listen to where you are at with your airspeed. Like Randy said though, these cubs fly so slow that it may not work well.

    You do have to be careful about where you locate the pitot/AOA tube with this system as any disturbed air such as off of the front strut if it is located where a PA18 pitot tube is located can give erroneous readings.
    Pete Dougherty
    R & D Shop Manager
    Cub Crafters Inc

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    Default Re: Angle of Attack Indicator

    Quote Originally Posted by randylervold View Post
    Flying by reference to an AOA indication system certainly has merit, just ask any Navy pilot. However it is best used in aircraft that are faster, where stall speeds are higher, where stalls are more abrupt, and where there is less feedback or "feel" than a Cub, especially a Carbon Cub (stalls even slower than a Super Cub). We've installed a couple of Dynons and they did not not work out, primarily due to the pitot tube placement.

    My own opinion is that AOA instrumentation is of marginal utility in slow planes like this, and further that some money invested in a good backcountry flying course will make you safer than an AOA instrument. You might consider spending some time at Lori MacNichol's school in McCall, ID... http://www.mountaincanyonflying.com/

    Lori has excellent courses. I did it two times and will again this spring with my carbon cub. The ugraded battery at min will make it a great back country airplane. Dont do the course with out this upgrade. You want to be insured it will start. My opinion is you do not need any AOA in any cub. You can feel the stall before it gets there nose down a bit power and you good to go or just nose down. Lori and her instructors are really good and she knows the carbon cub because her husband John has one. You will be surprised of its paint job. Nothing like it. Well there is but you have to see it to believe it. You will not believe what they will teach you about flying this airplane in short strips and short field landings until they show you. I'm going back this spring with CC SS#205. The smoker in the calendar guys and gals is mine. Its at factory now for all the upgrades, Cowling, Starter, Heater, Battery box, bigger battery and Backup battery monitor. Thanks Cubcrafters for making these very needed changes. I would never have been happy with the old heater or starting issues. I live in Minnesota. $ setback? Don't know yet.
    Last edited by Calvin; 12-17-2012 at 06:19 PM.

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    Administrator Pete D's Avatar
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    Default Re: Angle of Attack Indicator

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
    My opinion is you do not need any AOA in any cub. You can feel the stall before it gets there nose down a bit power and you good to go or just nose down.
    I agree, you don't need it to fly safely. It's more of an interesting way to put a "number" to something you can feel. I have not had the privilege of taking a course like Lori's but would like to some day. There is no better way to fly safer than taking the $ you would spend on a "gadget" and buying more avgas to practice.
    Last edited by Pete D; 12-19-2012 at 11:01 AM. Reason: fixed quote HTML
    Pete Dougherty
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    Cub Crafters Inc

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    Default Re: Angle of Attack Indicator

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sanford View Post
    Does anyone fly with an angle of attack indicator on a Carbon Cub? If so, what type do you use, and do you recommend it? Are there any particular angle of attack indicators suggested for the Carbon Cub? If so, which ones?

    Thanks.
    Without discussing the merits of AOA, since it was option of the Dynon's Skyview, we decided to install it. This is a picture of their AOA pitot (non heated). It is installed in the usual location on the rear spar with the Cub-Crafter bracket and a somewhat modified mount. When we finish, we will post an update as to how it works. This was the easy part, the ADAHARS bracket was a bit more difficult.


    Dynon Pitot.jpgDynon Pitot 2.jpg

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    Senior Member randylervold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Angle of Attack Indicator

    DRL, did Dynon recommend that pitot mounting location? I know with AOA systems the location of the pressure ports is critical and should be studied aerodynamically for optimum location. I have no reason to think it won't work way back on the rear spar but you might ask. Also, be careful about aerodynamic interference from the lift struts. We installed two of them here at factory and did not put them far enough away from the strut-to-spar attach point and got interference. We ended up refunding the customers money so that was painful for both sides.
    Randy Lervold

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    Default Re: Angle of Attack Indicator

    Quote Originally Posted by randylervold View Post
    DRL, did Dynon recommend that pitot mounting location? I know with AOA systems the location of the pressure ports is critical and should be studied aerodynamically for optimum location. I have no reason to think it won't work way back on the rear spar but you might ask. Also, be careful about aerodynamic interference from the lift struts. We installed two of them here at factory and did not put them far enough away from the strut-to-spar attach point and got interference. We ended up refunding the customers money so that was painful for both sides.
    Dynon's only recommendation was that it be placed in undisturbed air. The mount is used on the RV's, so I think it will be far enough below the wing, but interference from the struts at high AOA appears to be a valid concern. So, since it is a simple matter at this point to relocate it further out on the wing, we will try that. Mitch recommended a boom mount, we probably should have taken his advice, but the Top Cub bracket was a much easier installation. In any case, we will know if it works in about six months.

    On another matter, since we have the space, we were planning on putting a wet compass in the instrument panel, any thoughts about this?

    Dave

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