Tools - opinions and assistance

[Paul]

Hi guys.
I realize a lot of it comes down to personal preference but I would welcome and appreciate any help on some tool decisions.

Rivet Gun
2X or 3X
Recommended make and supplier?
Best variable speed gun out there?

Torque Wrench
digital/electronic or manual?
recommended make and supplier?

Air Compressor
Size and minimum performance specs?
What's the quietest compressor out there?

Rivet squeezer
Any advice on size and style and supplier for the squeezer?

Rivet Dimpling Set
Supplier that will sell the No. 40 set only.

Clamps
and lastly a really minor question, covered somewhat in a previous post....the tool list calls up 3" spring clamps. Will the two inch opening clamps do the job for the most part? Difference between $0.99 and $5 bucks per clamp.

Thanks!
Paul

[Nathaniel]

First off, check out Avery Tools for about everything you need. They rock.

For the cub, though I'm not building yet, I'd say you can use a 2x. I had a 3x on my RV-8 project but had some big rivets for spars and such.

Torquewrench - I have 2 Snap-On tech wrenches. Digital and they beep and vibrate at torque. Cost a fortune but I glad I got them. Can't speak to a mechanical one but I'm know it would work just fine.

Air compressor- What's your mission? You gonna paint the airplane with it or use a turbine system? Lots of sanding or just small stuff and other work like drills and such?

Not sure on the dimple set, again check Avery Tools. I'm not building yet but I hope this helps some.

[Paul]

Thanks Nathaniel.
I'm going with pneumatic tools, so the air comp will power up my rivet gun, drills and other hand tools. Initially I'm only thinking of priming and some small area painting but there is a possibility that I'll paint my Cub myself.

I just sent my first order off to Avery yesterday...you're right they've got a great selection and really informative website.

I'm leaning towards the digital torque wrench. Working with inch-pounds it just seems the accuracy will be better with electronics....course I've pushed a pencil all my life so I'm sure there's a few old timers out there shaking their heads, guys that can torque by feel.

[clipwingcub]

Hi guys.
I realize a lot of it comes down to personal preference but I would welcome and appreciate any help on some tool decisions.

Rivet Gun
Torque Wrench
Air Compressor
Rivet squeezer
Rivet Dimpling Set
Clamps

Thanks!
Paul

Paul, Like Nathaniel said, tools are personal, and sometimes where you buy them is personal too. I'll tell you what I use and why I use the one's that I do, and you can go from there.

Rivet Gun - a 2x is plenty for the EX. The largest solid rivet you will drive is a 1/8". 3x is heavier and longer. Get one with a good trigger. The trigger is the "variable-speed". I have a couple but always grab my Ingersoll-Rand AVC11 (2X gun) because of the trigger and adjustment dial on the gun. You can get one on ebay, yardstore.com or Clearairtools.com usually have good used guns. The EX has more pull rivets than solid rivets, so you don't need to go wild here if this is the only reason for getting. If you are new to this, squeeze everything you can.

Torque wrench - SNAP-ON period. Make sure it adjusts in in. lb. and not ft. lb. For the EX, you will need to go from 20 - 300 in. lb. I have 3 different one's to cover that range, all click-type. You can get directly from snapon.com or a local driver/dealer or try ebay. Have them calibrated before you use it. I also have a screwdriver type made by Utica that I use for any of the small screws. I tend to over-tighten smaller screws, and use it often.

Air Compressor - Decide what you will do with it, and what tools you will run on it. Get more CFM compressor than your largest use tool. You don't want the compressor to run all the time, or it puts out a lot of moisture, which is bad for the tools, and makes painting near impossible. Get a good filter system for your air lines. I have a very large tank Quincy compressor <made in the good ole USA> that I can barely hear running when it does, but I run some large grinders that use a lot of air. It also weighs about 1200 lbs.

Rivet Squeezer - I've tried Tatco, Avery, and they are well made. I have bone-spurs on my thumbs and can't squeeze an 1/8" rivet with either of these. I bought a Cleaveland Tools squeezer, and have no problem with it. I also have a couple of pneumatic squeezers that I prefer to use, but sometimes a hand squeezer gets you into some tight places you can't get with a pneumatic.

Rivet Dimple Dies - You will need a #30 and a #40 for the EX. Get Stainless Steel so they don't rust. You will need to grind them as described in the manual. YardStore, Brown Tool, or Aviation Tool Supply sell individually and I tend to buy most tools from one of these three depending on who has the best price.

Clamps - Mitch should change the description in the manual. 3" clamps are huge, about 10" long. If you take a look at the picture in the previous post, I glued all my stringers at once, and used about 70 clamps, 1", 2", and 3". I could have used masking tape in the places that I used the 3" clamps. The 1" clamps are too small for the longerons, but are best in the tight curve areas on the boot cowl. Ideally, if I were starting over, I would get about 40 2" clamps, 10 1" clamps, and 5 3" clamps. You can get by with fewer than this. Lowes sells Bessey clamps and they have stronger springs than the Pony clamps from HD, either will work.

Tony

[rlinford]

I would add that for the few cherry max rivets that hold the machined tail ribs in place you really, really, want to get your hands on a pneumatic offset puller. Be sure it's designed for the cherry max serated pins. My experience doing it by hand was extreemly poor and in the end I had to drill them all out and put the next 1/2 side larger rivet in with the offset puller. Came out OK in the end but I was very close to trashing the spar. Without a doubt the most frustrating part of this build to date.

You can put all the other cherry max rivets in with the Marson hand puller but the 8 or so in these ribs are in a bad spot and it's damn near impossible to get the rivet set right even though you may think it looks OK. Before I cried uncle and used the right tool I thought I had them set properly only to find out with an inspection mirror they were not correct - from the head side they looked fine but they were not completely set. Drilling them out is also a nightmare because as you drill them out the pin spins and damages the web of the spar - there is not enough room between the bulb and the web to really get them out well. Pretty critical connection too - you dont want your flaps falling off in flight.

I could not find one to borrow so I bought a nice one used on Ebay for $900 which is a lot of money except I turned around when I was done and sold it for $800...

Mitch may be able to set you up with one as a rental, I would ask him. If I were doing the wings again I would not even consider trying to put these particular CherryMax rivets in by hand.

Mine was a GaugeBilt 704E. PS: If you get one dont use it for pulling standard pop rivets unless you want to wreck the teeth in the grip.

[Paul]

Thanks for your help. Mitch has been in conversation with Avery tools and he and Bob Avery are working towards a rental program for some of these bigger ticket items. In the meantime Mitch has offered to help me get my hands on that pneumatic puller when the time comes.

Clipwingcub, I'm 100% in agreement...(The EX has more pull rivets than solid rivets, so you don't need to go wild here if this is the only reason for getting. If you are new to this, squeeze everything you can.) with Mitch's help, I'm taking your advice.

Mitch met with Bob Avery at Oshkosh and they're putting a kit together for CC EX builders. The latest that's come out of that conversation is a pop rivet tool (Emhart Tech PRP26A) that gets into ALL the tight spaces so far on my wing build. I've only used the angle jig with the Marson for 4 rivets, all the others, the PRP26A got them. Thanks Mitch.

The other development is a great squeezer and yoke that Mitch has already tried out at his plant and found that he could get at all the solid rivets for the spar blocks and fittings. I used mine today and there were only two rivets which I couldn't get at, so I took the yoke right off the squeezer and was then able to get in at the fittings (at rib #1), put the yoke back on, and squeeze those rivets. The others were a breeze...you just have to remove the dimple to get the yoke over the spar.

Great solution. Takes a little elbow grease but the control of the squeezer versus a gun and bucking bar is preferable and the results were outstanding. Real short learning curve too....you wouldn't have to look to hard to find my #1 rivet but after that, they turned out real nice.

Bob Avery and Mitch also put together a dimple set package that will handle all our rivets. These guys are really taking the guess work out of tools for me and Avery's pricing has been very good.