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Thread: Sideslip

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Sideslip

    Awesome post, I want to take that course someday but I heard they wouldn't let anyone in with a plane less than 150 hp. I wonder if that's true, I would want to take my sport cub. I know my plane will hang with higher HP planes so I wonder if they would make an exception. If anyone knows let me know.
    Rich

    To save some time...... yes I know that a Carbon Cub meets the HP requirements and if I had one I wouldn't have to worry. And yes Geo, I have taken a flight in a Carbon Cub and it was awesome.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Sideslip

    Thank you for the responses. I was using 50mph and of course was ending up too fast for short field. Gary, I'm interested in how you run the numbers for the 21mph final approach - can you elabourate?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Pete D's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sideslip

    Quote Originally Posted by rkortge View Post
    Awesome post, I want to take that course someday but I heard they wouldn't let anyone in with a plane less than 150 hp. I wonder if that's true, I would want to take my sport cub. I know my plane will hang with higher HP planes so I wonder if they would make an exception. If anyone knows let me know.
    Rich

    To save some time...... yes I know that a Carbon Cub meets the HP requirements and if I had one I wouldn't have to worry. And yes Geo, I have taken a flight in a Carbon Cub and it was awesome.
    I know of another customer who took the course in a Sport Cub. He had to do some talking to get them to let him do it but it sounded like they were quite impressed. It wouldn't hurt to give them a call and see what they say, maybe after that experience they will do it again.

    Pete
    Pete Dougherty
    R & D Shop Manager
    Cub Crafters Inc

  4. #14
    Super Moderator couleeone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sideslip

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete D View Post
    I know of another customer who took the course in a Sport Cub. He had to do some talking to get them to let him do it but it sounded like they were quite impressed. It wouldn't hurt to give them a call and see what they say, maybe after that experience they will do it again.
    Pete
    That would be John Miller, he owned a S1, serial # 5 at the time, Lori and the group were quite impressed with the performance of the S1 and that was a good 4 years ago. By the way, my good friend and long time wingman Johnny Miller passed away today from complications from cancer. It only took a month and a half from the time he found out...its a tough deal...
    Geo
    Piper Cub J3
    www.cubdriving.com

  5. #15
    Senior Member Centmont's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sideslip

    Please forgive the hijack...Geo...sorry about the loss of your friend. You, more than anyone I know, enjoys each day to its fullest. May it be so for a long, long, time.

    The landing Gary describes is the landing I was taught from the very beginning by one of Montana's best old bush pilots... He would take me to altitude and fly with full flaps trying to stay in that narrow zone where the wing is partially stalled. You come right down and under control. That said, it is still enormous fun to slip in the upwind to base to final turn, then use Gary's landing on final. Accurate speed control is the key to any short controlled landing... Great post Gary...good discussion. R
    Ralph Rogers
    Owner: TheCubWorks
    www.TheCubWorks.com
    CCSS #142 N123MR
    I have always felt the supercub is one thing mankind got right the first time but that there were better materials and methods to build them. CubCrafters products are proof I was right.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Sideslip

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete D View Post
    I know of another customer who took the course in a Sport Cub. He had to do some talking to get them to let him do it but it sounded like they were quite impressed. It wouldn't hurt to give them a call and see what they say, maybe after that experience they will do it again.

    Pete
    Lori's husband John who is a long time Super Cub driver purchased a Carbon Cub so they are now totally familiar with the planes and Lori flew with me for one of the days and got a mouthful from me about the differnces I was experiencing between the Husky and a Carbon Cub and my previous S2. I would bet they would be totally open to have a Sport Cub on that trip as it ( the SPort Cub) performs about the same as a Husky. Regards Gary

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Sideslip

    Quote Originally Posted by pwill435 View Post
    Thank you for the responses. I was using 50mph and of course was ending up too fast for short field. Gary, I'm interested in how you run the numbers for the 21mph final approach - can you elabourate?
    I will take a shot here but Ralph and others have been doig this longer than me so feel free to pipe in. First fly your CC at a safe altitude to practice the following:
    Load it up to gross, full flaps and fly with power at a speed just above the buffet before a stall and maintain altitude noting that indicated speed. (I can actually get my indicated airspeed to show 0 in that config and be right on the edge of a stall). Then determine, based on different power settings what your rate of decent is at the various power settings and specifically note your power setting at 500 FPM rate of decent which is a good target rate of decent. (Mine showed indicated 21MPH but I am pretty sure I am at around 30MPH based on my GPS in no wind situations. I am thinking the pitot tube has a bad angle of attack or some air burbles at that configuration which leads to a low airspeed indication) . You will probably have the stall warning talking to you all during this maneuver so takes some practice and getting used to before using such low airspeeds for a short field landing. If you are uncomforatble with this, its best to first do this with a qualified instructor who can help you build your confidence as on our Mountain Canyon trip it took some pilots a few days of pushing by instructors to get them out of their comfort zone as most of us have never been flying at these low speeds let alone aproaches. After you determine that indicated speed for YOUR plane, keep that airpseed nailed, do not change speed and control your approach totally with power. (I use 30 MPH indicated as my personal safe speed for approaches based on MY plane and suspect there may be indicated airspeed differences on each of our planes which will also change based on lighter loads) If you are short add power and do not let your airspeed change, if you are long reduce power and do not let your airspseed change. Depending on your rate of decent at touch down you either have enough energy to flair or you will need to add a touch of power just before touch down to arrest you rate of decent. You may note on the various films out there of Cubs doing short filed landings the pros are really working the power on and of on and off to keep that airpseed nailed. Hope that helps Best Gary

  8. #18
    Senior Member Springloaded's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sideslip

    Hey Gary
    After talking to you at flyin the other day I went out and did exactly that.I finally got it down to 30mph indicated (after a half a dozen approaches before I was comfortable at 30) plenty of energy to flare, mine buffets at about 18 indicated, you said to add 6 mph to that.I couldn't get it that slow with any comfort. In the class what did they recommend for gusty winds? It was blowing 20-25 the other day and it seemed like a hand full at that speed.
    Thanks for the tip pretty cool approach.
    Chuck
    Hope you had fun last weekend heard you & the helicopter check in with Palm Beach

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Sideslip

    Quote Originally Posted by Springloaded View Post
    Hey Gary
    After talking to you at flyin the other day I went out and did exactly that.I finally got it down to 30mph indicated (after a half a dozen approaches before I was comfortable at 30) plenty of energy to flare, mine buffets at about 18 indicated, you said to add 6 mph to that.I couldn't get it that slow with any comfort. In the class what did they recommend for gusty winds? It was blowing 20-25 the other day and it seemed like a hand full at that speed.
    Thanks for the tip pretty cool approach.
    Chuck
    Hope you had fun last weekend heard you & the helicopter check in with Palm Beach
    Hi Chuck yes we had a ball in the Bahamas and landed at PBI to clear customs. Did you hear the controller chuckle when Freeport Bahamas had entered my flight plan as Charlie Uniform Bravo CUB 711? They thought I was a cuban airliner penetrating the ADIZ!!!!! They were very good natured about it and even joked they knew something was wrong as I could not make much money as an airliner with only 2 seats. As for gusts just add a few MPH incase you get a wind shear, but they regularly fly that same speed in the canyons even under gusty conditions but yes its unerving. Sounds like you found the same golden number that Randy and I did at 30MPH, Just feels better there which you discovered but the plane is pretty mushy. But you can get it lower if you are entering the Valdez landing contest. In reality the distance on landing between a 30mph approach vs a 21 MPH apporach is so small it just is better to use 30 for a safety margin. Best Gary

  10. #20
    Senior Member Springloaded's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sideslip

    Gary
    I wasnt sure what was going on I was flying down the beach monitoring Palm Beach half listening, I did laugh when told him you were a PIPER cub. It is suprisingly pretty stable at 30mph.Just took a few times to convince my self of it.
    Chuck

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