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Thread: SBS-J16 - how long should it last when not charged?

  1. #1
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    Question SBS-J16 - how long should it last when not charged?

    I use a NOCO Genius 5 and typically keep it plugged in. I learned from @Daveembry's recent video that the wrong charge setting can cause issues and since then I switched it to AGM mode which should provide the proper voltages for battery maintaining, but I did also buy the one he recommended but haven't used yet as I have to figure out how to wire it in for easier maintaining. With that said, I believe many don't use them and CubCrafters obviously has planes sitting for extended periods of time.

    Last time I was on the charger was probably two weeks ago as I've been wanting to see how the battery performs without being maintained as I have the heavier duty SBS-J16. Since the last charge I did take my plane out for about 15 minutes of engine run time just to acquaint the dog in the back so I did a taxi and runup and that's it.

    Yesterday I went to fly, I turned the key and "click", tried again "click", waited a minute and it cranked and started. Voltage meter showed in the yellow on the left side. I can't remember what the left vs. right sides are measuring.

    How long should the SBS-J16 last and be able to crank when sitting in the hangar or on the ramp somewhere? I do have the XP1 jump battery and the pig tail is on should I need it. But I'm trying to learn how long the plane should be able to theoretically sit and be expected to crank.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Dan L's Avatar
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    Default Re: SBS-J16 - how long should it last when not charged?

    They should crank for a long time after inactivity without a tender. Perhaps a year or more.

    In February I had that same battery fail after a year. I removed it and found it had a mfg date of 2017 although I purchased it in 2021. I was sold new old stock and didn’t notice. They have a two year warranty and I was credited my purchase price. They just wanted the label and serial number for verification.

    73B9C05B-7811-402F-A527-E07FF2495200.jpg

    I took this picture after landing on its last flight. I flew up to the cabins and it was cold -8 if I remember correctly. When I’d left home it was an iffy start. I decided to make the flight but when I landed thought I’d better try a restart before getting out. That start was very, very iffy and I thought was in trouble before the quarter rotation cranks I was getting finally fired. I’d brought my Honda generator to keep the engine warm but not a charger. I’d planned an overnight trip. I left the engine running and made a quick pit stop and flew back home.

    The new battery is cranking fine so far.
    Flying Carbon Cub EX #11 since 2011

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    Default Re: SBS-J16 - how long should it last when not charged?

    Thanks, I've only had this since mid October. I'll have to inspect the battery. My concern is its bad. I don't think the short time I've had a noco genius on it has anything to do with it as I do know batteries from my RV (motorhome) experience and sulfation shouldn't be occurring any time soon.

    Here is the charger that @Daveembry mentioned in his video which I have but have yet to use:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CGJH9PG/

    CubCrafters sells the NOCO Genius 5 but I got mine from Amazon. No one mentions what setting it should be one, the CubCrafters service crew put the same one on my plane and also had it in 12V mode but I think it should be in AGM mode for the SBS-J16 battery.

    I'll see what I can find when I lift the seat and start looking.

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    Default Re: SBS-J16 - how long should it last when not charged?

    https://www.odysseybatteries.com/odyssey/sbsj16.html

    Battery Features Drycell design for mounting in any orientation and fully aerobatic use.
    2 year storage life to 50% state of charge when stored at 77F (25C).
    70% of rated starting power deliverd at -4F (-20C).

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    Senior Member Andy's Avatar
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    Default Re: SBS-J16 - how long should it last when not charged?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawgdrvr View Post
    How long should the SBS-J16 last and be able to crank when sitting in the hangar or on the ramp somewhere? I do have the XP1 jump battery and the pig tail is on should I need it. But I'm trying to learn how long the plane should be able to theoretically sit and be expected to crank.
    The FX-3 has a continuous load on the battery even with master off. This load is the GTX 345R GPS "keep alive". It's only about 50 micro amp but cannot be ignored. In addition the 12 V accessory outlet is hot with master off. Anything you leave plugged in there with drain the battery. A real killer is the ignition. If you accidentally leave the ignition switched on it will drain the battery with master off.

    I have never been happy with the way my FX-3 cranks even after a week in the hangar. Aircraft is less than 2 years old but I have not attempted to decode the battery date code.

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    Default Re: SBS-J16 - how long should it last when not charged?

    In trying to get the pigtail on for the new charger I couldn't get the positive terminal reconnected. Need to figure out that trick yet but now I pulled the ELT and that should give me a little more room. Since the battery is pulled I'm going to check to see the age and if it has a problem. I'm not sure what the correct setting is for using a NOCO Genius 5 on this whether just 12V or AGM. I think Dave found the correct charger and that's what I want to be using going forward. Now I just need to figure out whether to put this battery back in or buy another one for $200'ish and have a known good. I could put the new charger on this battery and it should tell me if it's good but I'm still waiting to see what the reason for this click yesterday when trying to start, that should not have occurred. I either need a warranty replacement or just buy one I'm guessing. I sent an email to CC and waiting to see what they say.

    Kinda funny I paid CC $450 for this $210 battery. Guess I should pursue a warranty replacement due to what I paid for this battery.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by hawgdrvr; 04-03-2022 at 05:15 PM.

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    Default Re: SBS-J16 - how long should it last when not charged?

    Neal,

    I was trying to find an old post I did with the documents about this but I can’t seem to find it. The battery I was referring to is their PC680, which was the battery CC use to use. I now have a SBS-J16 in my current build but haven’t used it yet but I think it’s probably the same.

    Essentially what they said is that their batteries (which are AGM and not gel) require a higher voltage charge at the beginning of the cycle at 14.7v whereas standard chargers normally charge up to 14.7 after starting at a lower voltage.

    Look at the document below at page 16. There is also lots of other good info you ask about in this document. They say it should hold a charge for 24 months but less with the parasitic drain from the stay alive transponder active.

    i first learned of all this after I had a battery (PC680) also go bad. I kept it on a regular, automotive “smart” charger/maintainer (which really wasn’t needed) but many times I spent a lot of time with the G3X on while I configured/tested/explored etc and needed to charge it back and also figured it was best to keep it up and fully charged. It started doing the same thing as yours. Sluggish and then it just wouldn’t start. I would use a voltmeter (and look at the panel) and would see the voltage low just under 12v. I charged it and it charged fully and it took the charge but as it sat for a few hours or a day and it would not hold the charge long. That’s when I talked to the people at Odyssey and they explained this to me. Essentially it seems the automotive charger/maintainer ruined it. They would not warrant it.

    i now use the 6amp Odyssey charger as they said and have had no problems but I do not leave it on the charger. I only use it if I have drained it while not flying.

    Check out this link. Lots of good info including this page regarding this. The previous document they had sent me went into more detail but still gets the message on how different they are.

    https://www.odysseybatteries.com/ody.../us-ody-tm.pdf


    AF4D51F8-DA92-40EF-A5BA-7E089F61533B.jpg


    Owners Manual.

    https://www.odysseybatteries.com/ody.../us-ody-om.pdf


    1820A826-9146-4DB6-BAAB-9739341D26D9.jpg

    Odyssey batteries are pretty cool because they are essentially “dry cell batteries” with no liquid acid or gel inside.

    So to test it, measure the current voltage (on voltmeter in plane if installed or use a voltmeter and test it). Charge it with your charger. It will probably charge into the green and be good but let it sit a day or 2 and remeasure the voltage and see if it drops down. Below 12v and it’s bad and probably won’t start the engine. If it drops like that, the battery is no good.

    Quote Originally Posted by hawgdrvr View Post
    I use a NOCO Genius 5 and typically keep it plugged in. I learned from @Daveembry's recent video that the wrong charge setting can cause issues and since then I switched it to AGM mode which should provide the proper voltages for battery maintaining, but I did also buy the one he recommended but haven't used yet as I have to figure out how to wire it in for easier maintaining. With that said, I believe many don't use them and CubCrafters obviously has planes sitting for extended periods of time.

    Last time I was on the charger was probably two weeks ago as I've been wanting to see how the battery performs without being maintained as I have the heavier duty SBS-J16. Since the last charge I did take my plane out for about 15 minutes of engine run time just to acquaint the dog in the back so I did a taxi and runup and that's it.

    Yesterday I went to fly, I turned the key and "click", tried again "click", waited a minute and it cranked and started. Voltage meter showed in the yellow on the left side. I can't remember what the left vs. right sides are measuring.

    How long should the SBS-J16 last and be able to crank when sitting in the hangar or on the ramp somewhere? I do have the XP1 jump battery and the pig tail is on should I need it. But I'm trying to learn how long the plane should be able to theoretically sit and be expected to crank.
    Last edited by Daveembry; 04-03-2022 at 07:13 PM.
    Dave Embry
    "You only live once.......but if you do it right.........once is enough."..

  8. #8
    Senior Member Dan L's Avatar
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    Default Re: SBS-J16 - how long should it last when not charged?

    That battery is $180 now from Spruce. A year ago they were $150ish.

    I charge mine as an AGM if needed. Mostly I use the old batteries on a boat, 4 wheeler, etc and they need an occasional charge.

    Do you have the 90 degree little brass angle coming off the battery and then the leads to the battery attached to the angle? That makes it relatively easy to connect.
    Flying Carbon Cub EX #11 since 2011

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    Default Re: SBS-J16 - how long should it last when not charged?

    Thanks for the info Dave. Since seeing your video I researched the NOCO Genius 5 and saw that the normal 12V mode I was using, like CubCrafters is 14.5V and the AGM mode is 14.8V which I switched to after seeing your video discussing this. If the NOCO is bad to use then bad started at CubCrafters as they use these (in 12V mode). Per what you provided above it seems either 12V or AGM mode would be fine but I don't know what happens in the float stage, only the charge volts. Regardless, I got the Odyssey charger which comes with a pigtail, while the NOCO is easy to use, the pigtail will make the Odyssey charger easy as well. But I think the lesson learned is to not charge it if I'm flying regularly, only when I'm doing my RV travel will I keep it on the tender.

    Attaches is the NOCO Genius 5 manual, voltages are on page 4.

    Dan I checked Aircraft Spruce and it's $217, direct from Odyssey seems the best option.

    https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...clickkey=23764

    https://www.odysseybatteries.com/odyssey/sbsj16.html

    Now I just have to decide whether to replace this battery since it's already out, or give it another try. And I may go to the hangar today and put it on the charger to test in the interim but I need to get something on the way ASAP if replacing it.

    As to the battery install, yes the connector is bent 90 degrees but the problem is there are 4 items on that connector as well, two 12V leads for USB and something else, two pigtails (XP1 jump starter and now the Odyssey charger). I think now with the ELT out and after removing the front fire extinguisher below the front of the seat I have more room.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Default Re: SBS-J16 - how long should it last when not charged?

    I also always carry with me one of the jump starters. There are many models of these type jump starters out there. This one is nice because it holds it’s charge forever and is strong enough to start my truck Diesel engine!! Also, I take it hunting , etc and use it as a battery pack to recharge USB accessories while in the field (like cell phone, etc. Anything with a USB connector). They are lithium so I keep it in the plane but in a pocket within reach of my pilot seat in case of fire.

    To use it, you just remove the 2 pins in the back of the pilot seat, slide it full forward and then it will tip up forward exposing the battery. You can connect the jump starter easily.....drop the seat.......start the engine and then jump out and remove the jump starter. I’ve only had to use it once but it worked fine. Good insurance with about 2 lbs wt.

    they don’t have the model I got back when, but it’s something like this https://www.amazon.com/CTWJO-15000mA...077721&sr=8-13

    Quote Originally Posted by hawgdrvr View Post
    Thanks for the info Dave. Since seeing your video I researched the NOCO Genius 5 and saw that the normal 12V mode I was using, like CubCrafters is 14.5V and the AGM mode is 14.8V which I switched to after seeing your video discussing this. If the NOCO is bad to use then bad started at CubCrafters as they use these (in 12V mode). Per what you provided above it seems either 12V or AGM mode would be fine but I don't know what happens in the float stage, only the charge volts. Regardless, I got the Odyssey charger which comes with a pigtail, while the NOCO is easy to use, the pigtail will make the Odyssey charger easy as well. But I think the lesson learned is to not charge it if I'm flying regularly, only when I'm doing my RV travel will I keep it on the tender.

    Attaches is the NOCO Genius 5 manual, voltages are on page 4.

    Dan I checked Aircraft Spruce and it's $217, direct from Odyssey seems the best option.

    https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...clickkey=23764

    https://www.odysseybatteries.com/odyssey/sbsj16.html

    Now I just have to decide whether to replace this battery since it's already out, or give it another try. And I may go to the hangar today and put it on the charger to test in the interim but I need to get something on the way ASAP if replacing it.

    As to the battery install, yes the connector is bent 90 degrees but the problem is there are 4 items on that connector as well, two 12V leads for USB and something else, two pigtails (XP1 jump starter and now the Odyssey charger). I think now with the ELT out and after removing the front fire extinguisher below the front of the seat I have more room.
    Last edited by Daveembry; 04-04-2022 at 06:13 AM.
    Dave Embry
    "You only live once.......but if you do it right.........once is enough."..

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