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Thread: Floats on my CCEX

  1. #11
    Junior Member
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    Aug 2014
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    Poplar Grove, Illinois
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    Default Re: Floats on my CCEX

    David

    You have not gotten a response. I hesitate to do so because I am certainly NOT an expert, .....but.......that disclaimer posted.......I think you might be over floated with 21xx floats with a GW of 1850. The problem with over floating in this case is weight. The problem with that is, the smaller and lighter the aircraft, the more impact the extra weight has. 100 extra pounds on C-185 or Beaver will not be nearly as noticeable as the same 100 pounds on a Light Sport Acft. At 1850 you are kinda in the middle ground. Too heavy for the Aerocett 1500, but to light for the extra weight of the 21xx floats by Wip, Edo, Claymar, Montana, etc.
    It is VERY easy to get heavy when on amphibs, 2 people, fuel, and camping gear. Plus you must carry extra rope, float bumpers, paddle, pump, etc and all the other stuff that goes with float flying. It adds up in a heartbeat. If you go with Claymars what will be your useful load? And can you honestly live with that? Most pilots, and most folks (passengers) don't weigh 150 pounds. Be really honest with yourself here. What is your mission? Will you be truly happy with just local splash and goes? Or are you thinking Alaska adventuring?

    Hope this helps

    Bill

  2. #12
    Senior Member David H's Avatar
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    Aug 2012
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    Rochester, Michigan
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    Default Re: Floats on my CCEX

    Bill,

    You hit the nail on the head. 1500's not enough flotation, but 2180's are overkill?
    Hmmm... papa bear, baby bear, need to find a mother bear size & weight that is "just right". But, these do not seem to exist.

    Clamar 2180 electric amphibs claim a rigged weight of 356# and an exchange weight of 258#.

    Aerocet 1500's:
    Aircraft CC11 (Carbon Cub/Sport Cub)
    Buoyancy 1550 lbs /
    Maximum Floatation 1746 lbs /
    Weight 281 lbs*/
    *WITH ALL ATTACHMENT RIGGING AND INTERNAL HARDWARE

    I am not a big guy at 155# so that certainly helps, but useful load is still a real issue.

    My mission is fun flying (splashing) around the upper lower peninsula of Michigan, going on fishing trips around the upper midwest and Canada with two aboard + gear.

    You have researched this a ton. What would you do?

    Thank you,

    David

  3. #13
    Senior Member Jon Delamarter's Avatar
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    Feb 2013
    Location
    Yakima, WA
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    188

    Default Re: Floats on my CCEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    Paul

    I hope I do not get banned or flamed but I put a lot of info on my float rebuild, and install, on my thread on the Supercub site. The float info starts here.....


    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post637213


    Hope this helps

    Bill
    Bill,

    I can think of no reason we'd ban or flame a helpful dude like you! I've read every post on every page of your build on www.supercub.org. Loved it.

    Glad you're here.
    Jon Delamarter, A&P/IA
    Customer Support Manager
    Cub Crafters, Inc.
    jond@cubcrafters.com
    Office (509)367-5200
    Cell (509)833-6993

  4. #14
    Junior Member
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    Aug 2014
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    Poplar Grove, Illinois
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    Default Re: Floats on my CCEX

    Jon - Thank you for those kind words.

    David
    Given the situation, as best I understand, I think you have to go to the larger 2100 (approx) size floats. Overfloating is generally not unsafe. It may impact performance, or gross weight but it is generally not unsafe. Underfloating an aircraft can quickly become unsafe. It is pretty easy to read the water when there are whitecaps out there. You know to be very careful, or to find sheltered water. But swells can be quite difficult to judge and could easily swamp a float resulting in a wingtip going in the water, or perhaps the nose going down, etc. So......under most circumstances.....better to be over floated than under.
    You are experimental. You have the ability to set your GW when on floats to whatever value you are comfortable with. ( I believe). In his book "Design for Flying" David Thurston has a chapter regarding float installs and considerations. If I remember correctly (big disclaimer there LOL) he writes that most certificated aircraft can safely operate with a higher GW for a couple of reasons. One of which is a common GW limitation when on wheels is the landing gear and its ability to absorb a bad landing impact. The float install and gear changes this parameter and often allows for approx 150 pound increase in GW when on floats. (for Cub sized aircraft) You might give the folks at CC a call and discuss this with them. I am sure they will have to consider their liability when discussing this but they may be able to give you some idea of the GW limitations for your aircraft (wing spar, gear attach, firewall etc) which may allow you to get a warm fuzzy on if you can consider a GW increase to say 2000pds when on floats. If so that would help mitigate the loss of useful load when on amphibs.
    I have flown the Clamars on a Northstar (Supercub Clone) and did not see any issues. I do believe they have worked pretty hard to get the weight down. If you are buying used you might consider that the older Clamar floats may be considerably heavier than the newer versions. My Wip 2100 amphibs with all rigging, cables, bolts etc weighed in at 409. If I remember right, I think my gear (31" bush wheels), tailwheel etc., all came in at 125 so my exchange weight was about 285. I do not have good data for Montana, PK, or some of the others. I do not know much about the new Mead floats. I also have a manual float retract system which saved about 15 pounds I think, and certainly simplified things.

    Useful load is ALWAYS (and always has been) the 800 Pound Gorilla in the room when it comes to Floatplanes

    I will be returning to Alaska tomorrow to continue my "summer on floats in Alaska" vacation. If you get bored and want to see some pictures of what awaits you once you are up on floats.......for a little motivation..........

    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...to-Alaska-2017

    I hope this helps (at least a little)

    Bill

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