Zaon XRX Now in My Carbon Cub

[turbopilot]

Yep, big, "Heavy", takes up lots of panel space, and really doesn't solve the problem to get ADS-B in.

I'm pretty much convinced that a 1090 solution is not the way to go for the Sport or Carbon Cubs.

Great discussion guys. Learned a lot. Confused about the GTS800 needing a GTX327 transponder. I thought the GTS800 needed the GTX330 for ADS-B out/in.

Any ADS-B traffic solution is only good starting in 2020 when everyone has to comply, right? I will look into the UAT option. Please post more information on your solution.

[clipwingcub]

You are correct that you would need the GTX330 (either D or ES model, not the mode-S model) with extended squitter to have ADS-B "out". The reason you would not get ADS-B "in" without it is because the FAA will not transmitt the TIS-B (traffic) unless there is a client transmitting "out" in the area of the ground station. I guess you could get lucky and another airplane in the area is transmitting ADS-B out, but not likely. Here is another catch - the GTX330D or ES needs a TSO145aWASS GPS providing position or it can't send ADS-B "out". The GNS530W is needed for that part, and it only has one ARINC 429 and that is being used with the GTS800 (Pete, correct me if I got that part wrong).

All that extra equipment needed is why 1090 Mhz (all transponders, including mode-C, and mode-S, and ES transmitt on 1090 Mhz) is not attractive to me. It requires too much heavy, expensive equipment to provide ADS-B "out" and "in". Why would you do the "out" if you couldn't get the "in"? I wouldn't. Plus it won't ever receive FIS-B (weather).

UAT (978 Mhz) promises to do all that with a bundled unit, including TSO GPS, much lighter, smaller equipment, including weather. The problem is that nobody has them available yet. Navworx, and Freeflight seem to be very close. Whichever has it by the time I get to my panel will get my $. I'll post when I finally make the decision which and why.

With TIS-B (ADS-B "in"), the FAA is providing a composite message that includes UAT, 1090, TIS-A, and regional radar targets. Much more accurate, and much more complete. Without the ADS-B, the GTS800 is sending out a 40 watt interogation on 1090 (friend or foe), and other aircraft are responding the same as it would if hit by a ground radar station. The GTS800 then calculates position based on the old pressure altitude, with multiple interogations to determine direction, then send that code to the MFD for display.

[Pete D]

You are correct that you would need the GTX330 (either D or ES model, not the mode-S model) with extended squitter to have ADS-B "out". The reason you would not get ADS-B "in" without it is because the FAA will not transmitt the TIS-B (traffic) unless there is a client transmitting "out" in the area of the ground station. I guess you could get lucky and another airplane in the area is transmitting ADS-B out, but not likely. Here is another catch - the GTX330D or ES needs a TSO145aWASS GPS providing position or it can't send ADS-B "out". The GNS530W is needed for that part, and it only has one ARINC 429 and that is being used with the GTS800 (Pete, correct me if I got that part wrong).

Correct. I think it has one out and two in or vice versa, but the end result is there are not enough ports unless you have two 530s or some other kind of GPS.

Pete D.

[clipwingcub]

Any ADS-B traffic solution is only good starting in 2020 when everyone has to comply, right?

I alluded to the answer on this, but didn't clearly provide. The short answer is that you do not need to wait until 2020, as long as you are in an ADS-B ground station coverage area. The FAA does something called ADS-R (rebroadcasts), which creates a traffic composite or all radar, all TIS, all UAT, and all 1090ES; then re-transmits to ADS-B "in" aircraft. So you get targets even for planes that don't have transponders that are in radar coverage. It will continue to get better in non-radar areas as more planes install ADS-B "out"

With UAT, you get weather in addition to traffic. I've seen 3 different setups, and the Nexrad from FIS-B blows XM away. The refresh is within seconds vs minutes. And best of all, no subscription to receive. This is broadcast continuously without the need for "out" transmitts to turn on the broadcast like traffic requires. If all you want is the weather, you could get by with a simple portable UAT receiver (available today) and an iPad or some other display.

[turbopilot]

I alluded to the answer on this, but didn't clearly provide. The short answer is that you do not need to wait until 2020, as long as you are in an ADS-B ground station coverage area. The FAA does something called ADS-R (rebroadcasts), which creates a traffic composite or all radar, all TIS, all UAT, and all 1090ES; then re-transmits to ADS-B "in" aircraft. So you get targets even for planes that don't have transponders that are in radar coverage. It will continue to get better in non-radar areas as more planes install ADS-B "out"

With UAT, you get weather in addition to traffic. I've seen 3 different setups, and the Nexrad from FIS-B blows XM away. The refresh is within seconds vs minutes. And best of all, no subscription to receive. This is broadcast continuously without the need for "out" transmitts to turn on the broadcast like traffic requires. If all you want is the weather, you could get by with a simple portable UAT receiver (available today) and an iPad or some other display.

Great information. I have the GDU375 in my Carbon Cub so if I read the Navworx web site right I can get ADS-B in traffic but not weather on the GDU375.

[clipwingcub]

Great information. I have the GDU375 in my Carbon Cub so if I read the Navworx web site right I can get ADS-B in traffic but not weather on the GDU375.

Correct, Garmin doesn't support the GDL90 protocol in the 37X. Yours has hardware for XM which they can sell at a considerable profit, why give you weather for free. I hope that they change with the G3X hardware in the future, but for now that is the case.

BTW, I'm not knocking Garmin in any way. My company developed the GDL90, SL40/30, GNS, GNX before we sold it to Garmin. Most of this hardware is still very much like it was in 2003. You may remember II Morrow. Several of the engineers that wanted to stay still work for me.

[turbopilot]

Correct, Garmin doesn't support the GDL90 protocol in the 37X. Yours has hardware for XM which they can sell at a considerable profit, why give you weather for free. I hope that they change with the G3X hardware in the future, but for now that is the case.

BTW, I'm not knocking Garmin in any way. My company developed the GDL90, SL40/30, GNS, GNX before we sold it to Garmin. Most of this hardware is still very much like it was in 2003. You may remember II Morrow. Several of the engineers that wanted to stay still work for me.

Remember II Morrow right from the beginning. Thanks for all your information. Please keep us up to date on your installation. I will follow your lead.

[glickle]

Yes what a great flash back II Morrow! Had the early Apollos with Loran C and thought they were the best. I in fact am about to list on Ebay a II Morrow GPS Fly Buddy that I am finally parting with after many many trouble free years of service. I imagine there is a collector out there soemwhere. Best Gary

[turbopilot]

I remember picking up one of the first Apollo II 612B's at Oshkosh in the 1980's. Put it in my Turbo Arrow and began to discover parts of the west I had never seen before because there were no VOR's.

4cd209978affb_54746b.jpg

[Pete D]

We've got a bunch of that kind of stuff out in the storage shed. Not really much good these days, right? Maybe someday someone will want it to restore something to "original"

Pete D.