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Thread: Ccx-1865/g3x question

  1. #1
    Member tautrey's Avatar
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    Default Ccx-1865/g3x question

    Is the Carbon Cub FX (E-AB Class) with the executive glass panel legal for IFR flight ?
    I am very interested in this bird and the builder assist program but I can't get a straight answer about this in the G3X manual from Garmin. Their manual is generic and states that IFR approaches can be made with external nav sources but the FX only has a GPS and I'm not sure if it is certified for GPS LNAV+v and LPV approaches.
    I realize that the Top Cub would meet these requirements but the Top only has a 24 inch cabin width as opposed to the 33" cabin in the FX.

    Just wanted to find some answers here before I go digging into the FAR's. That book puts me to sleep every time I start to read it.

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    Member Treetopflyer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ccx-1865/g3x question

    You can file and fly IFR with the G3x....but you just can't enter IMC. The G3x has a WAAS GPS but it's not a "certified" GPS so it can't be used legally to enter IMC, so you'd need to add some other "certified" nav source such as a GTN 625,635, or 650.


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  3. #3
    Member tautrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ccx-1865/g3x question

    Quote Originally Posted by Treetopflyer View Post
    You can file and fly IFR with the G3x....but you just can't enter IMC. The G3x has a WAAS GPS but it's not a "certified" GPS so it can't be used legally to enter IMC, so you'd need to add some other "certified" nav source such as a GTN 625,635, or 650.


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    Thanks. That's what I thought.

  4. #4
    Member tautrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ccx-1865/g3x question

    [QUOTE=Treetopflyer;14360]You can file and fly IFR with the G3x....but you just can't enter IMC. The G3x has a WAAS GPS but it's not a "certified" GPS so it can't be used legally to enter IMC, so you'd need to add some other "certified" nav source such as a GTN 625,635, or 650.

    On the other hand, 91.205 makes no reference to certified versus tso'd GPS equipment. The external GPS 20A used in conjunction with the G3x should be legal for flight into IMC. The folks at Cubcrafters concur with this opinion.

  5. #5
    Member Treetopflyer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ccx-1865/g3x question

    According to Garmin, the GPS 20A can also add higher-performing GPS navigation to your G3X system, but I don't think it can "legally" be used as a navigational source when entering IMC. I'm installing this exact same system in my RV-7 that I'm finishing up, but according to my avionics guy, he said that I'd need a TSO'd GPS to "legally" enter IMC. You may want to send Garmin an email and hear what they have to say about it. You can reach them at G3xpert.com. I'd be interested to hear what you find out.


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  6. #6
    Member tautrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ccx-1865/g3x question

    Quote Originally Posted by Treetopflyer View Post
    According to Garmin, the GPS 20A can also add higher-performing GPS navigation to your G3X system, but I don't think it can "legally" be used as a navigational source when entering IMC. I'm installing this exact same system in my RV-7 that I'm finishing up, but according to my avionics guy, he said that I'd need a TSO'd GPS to "legally" enter IMC. You may want to send Garmin an email and hear what they have to say about it. You can reach them G3xpert.com. I'd be interested to hear what you find out.


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    Roger that.

  7. #7
    Member Dickey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ccx-1865/g3x question

    Remember that this thread is based on the CCX-1865 which is EAB. That being said, take a look at the following article from the EAA.

    https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-...ifr-operations


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  8. #8
    Member Treetopflyer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ccx-1865/g3x question

    Yeah, I read that article earlier, and this is the interesting part:

    "As with transponders and other equipment discussed previously, GPS equipment must meet the performance requirements of the applicable TSO (in this case, C129), but there is no specific requirement for the equipment to be built under a TSO authorization".

    So, with that being said, if you were painted into a corner and you could prove the above statement, than I guess you'd be golden....but if not, you may be in a bind. Like my avionics guy said, in the real world, all of this equipment works so well that you'd never be able to tell any difference in the performance of the WAAS GPS that came with the G3x and one that came with a TSO'd piece of equipment. I guess the only problem that you may face would be proving that you had the "proper" equipment if that situation ever arose. Like the article said, if you have TSO'd equipment, than you're in good shape and you don't have to "prove performance requirements" any further than pointing at that little TSO sticker. So, with all that being said, and regarding the GPS 20-A, this does bring up a good argument. Even though it was primarily designed to meet the "performance requirements" for ADS-B out when coupled to a mode "S" ES transponder, it may very well cover you if the question ever arose.

  9. #9
    Member tautrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ccx-1865/g3x question

    Extracted from the above article:

    GPS equipment must meet the performance requirements of the applicableTSO (in this case, C129), but there is no specific requirement for theequipment to be built under a TSO authorization. However, if the equipment isnot built under a TSO authorization, it is up to the owner/operator to verifyand document that the equipment performs within the required specifications. Itis also the owner or operator's responsibility to document the necessaryflight-test data showing that the installation performs within the requiredaccuracy parameters.
    So if I conduct a flight test of the Garmin 20A and document the test results in my aircraft flight log, I should have the required performance documentation to be legal. The only question is - what are the guidelines/procedures/parameters for the flight test?


  10. #10
    Member tautrey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ccx-1865/g3x question

    A simple solution would be to enlarge the cutout for the com radio in the exec glass panel for the FX and install a GTXnav/com or GTN650. The face dimensions of these units are just slightly larger and wouldn't require much effort. Routing the additional antennae would be easy if done during the build phase (before covering). Nav antenna on the vertical stab and GPS antenna in the belly. This would give you a TSO'd/certified IFR nav source. I would be a be to do the required VOR intercepts and tracking to maintain IFR currency that the G3x/20A combination can't provide. I wouldn't have to rent a pt23 bird just to maintain IFR currency.

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