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Thread: What do I need to paint my Carbon Cub?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Cubrath's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do I need to paint my Carbon Cub?

    Painted the PPG DUHS color and it is a very easy paint to work with. This was my first experience with the PPG and I was happy with the results. It is a two part paint and no reducer required. The first time I sprayed the paint I thought this is very bad. When the paint first goes on it is a little rough but if you give it a minute it will start to flow out and continue to flow for 24 hours. My color was the volcano red and after the first coat the paint got a molten effect, I was worried again. It looked like it was starting to crawl if that makes sense. However, after the second coat it covered nice and it tacks up quickly compared to the Ranthae that I was using. I found that I needed to put the paint on thicker than I was use to. The more paint you get on the better it flows. This would be a very friendly paint to a first time painter. If I was to put Ranthane on that thick it would be all over the floor!!

    I also mixed up two much paint. I mixed 32 sprayable ounces and only used half that. It does have excellent covering power! At $1200 a gallon I hate to waste one drop much less 16 oz! Overall I am very happy with this paint. I will probably do my next airplane entirely in PPG!

    MR
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  2. #12
    Senior Member ceslaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do I need to paint my Carbon Cub?

    That looks great.

    I am just getting ready to start paint, so your posts are very helpful.

    How much time did you allow between the first and second coats?

    Chuck

  3. #13
    Senior Member Cubrath's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do I need to paint my Carbon Cub?

    I let the paint flash for about 20 min between coats.

    MR

  4. #14
    Senior Member ceslaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do I need to paint my Carbon Cub?

    Finally got started spraying yesterday. Your suggestion to use carb cleaner for clean up worked really well.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Cubrath's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do I need to paint my Carbon Cub?

    That's great Chuck. Can't wait to see pictures of your progress!

    MR

  6. #16
    Senior Member Cubrath's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do I need to paint my Carbon Cub?

    One wing down and one wing to go before final assembly!

    This has been my first project with using the PPG DHUS paint supplied by CubCrafters. I am using Ranthane for my white top coat and the Metallic Volcano Red PPG paint for the trim. I can get great, consistent results with the Ranthane because I have sprayed so much of it. However, I have had a little bit of a learning curve with the Metallic Red.

    Now that 3/4 of the $1200 gallon is gone I finally feel I have a pretty good handle on it and I will pass along what I learned in case someone else is going to go with a metallic color.

    First, I have found that you have to spray a very thin, tack coat and let it dry until it won't leave a finger print in the paint. You see from the first three pictures that the metallic particles will sag, molt and do all kinds of crazy things on that first coat. If you put the first coat on to thick, it will molt and you won't be able to cover it with progressive coats. Next spray a second coat that is slightly heavier and let it tack up as well. You still won't have total coverage at this point and the the paint will look like 400 grit sandpaper at this point. I then spray a third and fourth coat that are put on thick enough to flow out smooth. The tacky paint underneath gives the metallic something to bite onto and will stay put and not flow. I also let it sit about 20-30 min between the third and fourth coat.


    Another problem with the metallic I have found is that it is very easy to get tiger strips. The last coat you want to put on as even as possible get get the paint to flow and look like one color. Also, don't do cross coats. Paint in one direction for the entire last coat. If you don't the metallic will lay in different directions and you will see that once the paint dries.

    MR
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  7. #17
    Senior Member ceslaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do I need to paint my Carbon Cub?

    That color really pops! Looks great.

  8. #18
    Senior Member TroyBranch's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do I need to paint my Carbon Cub?

    The end is in your sights. It looks great. I love any kind of red....this is my first plane with no red

  9. #19
    Senior Member Cubrath's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do I need to paint my Carbon Cub?

    This might relate more to covering than paint but when I covered my first wing I did not apply polybrush to the leading edge before covering. I don't think CC recommends it but the polyfiber manual does. When I brushed the first coat of polybrush on it left craters in the leading where just not enough polybrush could soak through. It took several brushed and spray coats to get the craters out and they really didn't fill until the second coat of polyspray. On the second wing I sprayed a heavy coat of polybrush on the aluminum leading edge before I started covering. After the first coat no craters and I think it will be less material overall.
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  10. #20
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    Default Re: What do I need to paint my Carbon Cub?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubrath View Post
    Chuck,

    I see the pictures of that GT40! I'm sure you know more about painting than I do!!


    The one area that I have struggled with the most over the years is to dial in the paint booth. I wish I could justify a 75k downdraft paint booth but I just can't get the numbers to work. I also think that if I had 20" exhaust coming out of my garage roof my wife would divorce me and my neighborhood association would evict me! I will explain my poor mans paint booth and what I have found to get the best results.

    There are four parts to the paint boot:

    1) Clean work area

    2) Contain/exhaust overspray

    3) Lighting

    4) Temperature control

    The first one is obvious. You are not going to get good results painting outside in the wind. I took my third stall garage and framed it off with simple 2x4 construction. I then went to the local hardware store and bought 4 mil vapor barrier plastic sheeting. I comes in all sizes so get the right size so you can go from floor to ceiling all the way around the room without cutting the plastic. I just staple mine up and don't have any seams all the way around the room. I find this plastic last for about half the project so when it gets dirty I just staple up another new layer over the old. After three layers its time to tear it all down and start over. It is also easy to cut in filters and exhaust fans. I have moved the location of the filters and fans several times trying to get the best results.

    You will also have to clean the booth between each coat of paint. I started out covering the floor and it just became a hassle. I now just sweep out and wash the floor between coats. Polyfiber sprays very dry so you will have a lot of dust between coats. Some paints you can wet the floor to keep the dust down and others (like polyfiber) won't tolerate the humidity in the booth. I found it best to just keep the floor as clean as possible.

    The second one is the tough one. It is easy to contain the overspray and exhaust the overspray. However, I have found it is very difficult to do without introducing dust into the paint when using slower drying polyurethane paints. The problem is that when using poor man box fans (I know, more on that in a second) you can't move enough moving air to keep the dust suspended and it ends up in your paint. If you look at a 75K professional paint booth they use an enormous amount of air volume that they move through the booth and thats what makes them so good. The dust and overspray is moved out before it has a chance to end up in the paint. I have come to the realization that to get to that level is too difficult and expensive for me and for what I am trying to accomplish. I do use Walmart style box fans. I know they are not an explosion proof fan and there is risk in using them. I accept the risks with the box fans and after aprox 300 hours of spraying in the booth I have not had any problems. This is something you will have to decide for yourself. If you have the ability to use or find a paint booth fan by all means go for it. I am always on the look out for one that I can afford!

    If you look at the pictures below you can see my setup. From my experience I have found that it is better to pull fresh air into the booth through the filters and exhaust the contaminated air out with a fan to get the best results. Over the years I have tried to force air into the booth and then use an exhaust fan to move more air but I had more dust contamination with that method.

    My goal with my setup is to use enough air to clear the paint booth of overspray and introduce as little dust as possible. I have found the best results by using two high flow furnace filters at about the five foot level which allow air into the booth. I have used more expensive paint booth filters and couldn't tell a difference. I then use a box fan at the other end of the booth and simple cardboard boxes to duct the contaminated air out of my adjacent garage door. Its not fancy but I think it provides the best bang for the buck. Another side note, do not just pop your garage door and slide a box fan under it. It will wreck the top of your garage door with overspray. Ask me how I know!!

    If you are going to use polyfiber polybrush/spray/tone or other fast drying paints you will have very few problems with this set up and dust contamination. If the paint dries quick it does not have time to pick up dust.

    Third is the lighting. This is an important one for good results. You have to have enough light to see what you are doing but you also need to have enough light to see where the paint is going onto the surface you are spraying. This is what they call looking at the glare from reflected light. This can be accomplished by using light angled at 45 degrees from the surface you are painting. The lights can be mounted on the wall or you can use portable lights to accomplish this. I do a little of both. This also takes a little experimenting but when try it you will pick it up quick and be able to position your lights to the optimum position. Another side note is try and use LED lights or lower draw lights. If you try to run five halogen lights plus an Axis paint sprayer on one circuit you won't be painting for long! I have switched over to almost all LED lights and I am very happy with them.

    Last but not least is temperature control. Even though my garage is heated I have found I can bump my temperature up in the booth 10 degrees with a small portable heater before I am ready to paint if I need to. I find that 70-80 degrees works best for me.

    Next installment will be on a few of the tricks and tools I have found helpful while painting.


    First picture is the outside of the booth, notice the small boxes at the bottom right of the picture to exhaust the fumes out the other garage door. Extend it out far enough so you don't get overspray on the house, you will be surprised at how much paint comes out. Also, move the cars out of the driveway!!

    Second picture is inside the booth and you can see the small exhaust fan.

    Third picture is inside the booth looking forward. You can see the two filters. The upper fan/filter is not used, just a failed experiment that has not been removed! I am also using two of the new BIG ASS LED lights on the ceiling and they are amazing.

    Third picture is of the boot cowl that I painted yesterday. I'm very happy with the results. Notice my Carbon Cub tee shirt in the reflection!!

    MR
    Great info. Thanks so much for taking the time on all this. I have a couple questions as I get my booth ready.

    1. I'm looking for info on the compressor and the water separator/dryer/filters that should be used. Big difference in costs with some $500 for the separators/filters and some $10. Reviews seem to show that you can find them to work well in almost any price range. I'll only use it to paint this airplane and so don't want to spend more than required for 1 time use but don't want a screw up either. I read that you should run about 50' of air line and then put on the water filters as it takes that far to let the air cool down and make the water vapor larger to catch in the filters?
    2. How important is the CFM rating on the compressor. Looks like with the HVLP systems, you are only using 25-45 psi at the gun, and you are not painting large volumes so. Smaller tank and compressor would seem to work. Some systems say to use a compressor with high CFM but they are extremely expensive to get them that high. I have one that is just over 5 CFM and was thinking of trying to make it work.

    Mitch set me up with 2 spray guns. The factory will actually set them up to spray (1 for brush and spray and the other for final top coat) and ship them to you all ready to go! great support there.

    thanks for any comments.

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