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Thread: towing gliders

  1. #11
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    Default Re: towing gliders

    I'm sure it can be done and would be quite effective. I'm an active glider pilot and have been towed in many different sailplanes behind a wide variety of tow planes; the tow planes most often used in the U.S. are 230hp Pawnees and 180hp Huskies. A 180 Husky will quite happily tow a 2-place ASK-21; the tow will be less efficient but still possible and safe for heavier ships at higher airport elevations. What's most important is the tow pilot's understanding of safe tow speeds.

    Concerning instability in rough air: that's just par for the course in sailplane flying, and the towed sailplane will be more impacted than the tow plane due to its lower wing loading, which is typically in the 7 to 10 lb / sq ft range.

    Adding a tow attachment option to the CC EX could be quite interesting.
    Last edited by ventus2c; 10-21-2014 at 01:56 PM.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: towing gliders

    CHT's would be the limiting factor. In many soaring locations temperatures are seasonally relatively high. These temperature conditions are not compatible with full power 60-65 MPH tow speeds to typical release altitudes using a CC340. Don't bother unless it is a cold climate. But why waste a CC340 towing!? That's what Husky's are made for. Mike

  3. #13
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    Question Re: towing gliders

    Hi, again
    and thanks to all of the answers.

    Still it seems somebody needs to build and test it. I am not at this point, yet.

    Question also would be what would the maximum tow weight be? Could we legally tow an 800kg Duo Discus?

    Super Cub only is certified for 600kg isnīt she?

    Best, Peter.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: towing gliders

    As both a glider pilot and Pawnee tow pilot, I am at present installing a TOST Tow Release on my CC EX2. Interested in any post installation CHT experience or issues. Expect that 18m or ASK21/Duo Discus gliders will be quite acceptable with CC340 @180HP , not so sure about keeping known CHT under control climbing at 70kts with the original cowling.

    Quote Originally Posted by ventus2c View Post
    I'm sure it can be done and would be quite effective. I'm an active glider pilot and have been towed in many different sailplanes behind a wide variety of tow planes; the tow planes most often used in the U.S. are 230hp Pawnees and 180hp Huskies. A 180 Husky will quite happily tow a 2-place ASK-21; the tow will be less efficient but still possible and safe for heavier ships at higher airport elevations. What's most important is the tow pilot's understanding of safe tow speeds.

    Concerning instability in rough air: that's just par for the course in sailplane flying, and the towed sailplane will be more impacted than the tow plane due to its lower wing loading, which is typically in the 7 to 10 lb / sq ft range.

    Adding a tow attachment option to the CC EX could be quite interesting.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: towing gliders

    Hi,

    that is finally some very interesting progress and I am curious how it goes. I am at the topic for a while already, as I am consulting CubCrafters Europe in German speaking countries and what I have learnt is that it is illegal to do glider towing with an experimental airplane an also with LSA airplanes within N-registration. That is obviously one of the reasons, why nobody has done it yet, or officially reported on this.

    In Europe it would be no problem. I checked with German aviation authorities "LBA" and here it is no problem at all. It Would require some stress testing on the fusealge, which means it would require some pulling at the installed towing kit with the max. towing force you want to reach. That is why nobody has done it so far. There is only one D-registered plane flying in Germany, and one in Poland. Both are "SS"-models (which might sound a bit funny in combination with a German registration, ...), so LSA with a permit to fly of LBA.

    Besides the stress testing some very small programm of flight testing would be required, that would be it.

    How are you planning on doing this? Assuming you are from NewZealand (right?), what are the needs for your CAA?

    Did you do any stress calculation or testing? Would you share the results (as CubCrafters are not interested in doing the testing so far).

    CHT is an interesting question. Also towing speeds are interesting, as Vy (63kts, about 115km/h) is quite slow for a modern glider, which would rather need a little over 70kts.

    I have done a lot of glider flying and towing on PZL104 Wilga and Piper Pawnees, too. So I do have the experience, too.

    Our Norwegian friends, Olaf and JP, of Aerocub Nordic, who built the first European Kitplanes LN-BER & LN-FLY do have a Tost-hook at LN-BER and did some banner - towing, which can be seen on YouTube (Olavb). But as they told they did not do stress testing before so they did not tow gliders, yet.

    It would be great to get connect on the issue and learn a little more how it goes.

    Good luck and fly safe!

    Best regards, Peter (peter@cubcrafterseurope.com)




    Quote Originally Posted by karaka29211 View Post
    As both a glider pilot and Pawnee tow pilot, I am at present installing a TOST Tow Release on my CC EX2. Interested in any post installation CHT experience or issues. Expect that 18m or ASK21/Duo Discus gliders will be quite acceptable with CC340 @180HP , not so sure about keeping known CHT under control climbing at 70kts with the original cowling.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: towing gliders

    I am not yet at that point, I am not aware of any stress testing or glider AUW requirements here, the requirements are based upon height performance with relation to field length with glider in tow, which probably has its origins in the BGA.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Flying STIG View Post
    Hi,

    that is finally some very interesting progress and I am curious how it goes. I am at the topic for a while already, as I am consulting CubCrafters Europe in German speaking countries and what I have learnt is that it is illegal to do glider towing with an experimental airplane an also with LSA airplanes within N-registration. That is obviously one of the reasons, why nobody has done it yet, or officially reported on this.

    In Europe it would be no problem. I checked with German aviation authorities "LBA" and here it is no problem at all. It Would require some stress testing on the fuselage, which means it would require some pulling at the installed towing kit with the max. towing force you want to reach. That is why nobody has done it so far. There is only one D-registered plane flying in Germany, and one in Poland. Both are "SS"-models (which might sound a bit funny in combination with a German registration, ...), so LSA with a permit to fly of LBA.

    Besides the stress testing some very small programm of flight testing would be required, that would be it.

    How are you planning on doing this? Assuming you are from NewZealand (right?), what are the needs for your CAA?

    Did you do any stress calculation or testing? Would you share the results (as CubCrafters are not interested in doing the testing so far).

    CHT is an interesting question. Also towing speeds are interesting, as Vy (63kts, about 115km/h) is quite slow for a modern glider, which would rather need a little over 70kts.

    I have done a lot of glider flying and towing on PZL104 Wilga and Piper Pawnees, too. So I do have the experience, too.

    Our Norwegian friends, Olaf and JP, of Aerocub Nordic, who built the first European Kitplanes LN-BER & LN-FLY do have a Tost-hook at LN-BER and did some banner - towing, which can be seen on YouTube (Olavb). But as they told they did not do stress testing before so they did not tow gliders, yet.

    It would be great to get connect on the issue and learn a little more how it goes.

    Good luck and fly safe!

    Best regards, Peter (peter@cubcrafterseurope.com)

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