Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 30

Thread: Garmin Synthetic Vision in the Carbon Cub?

  1. #1
    Senior Member turbopilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    La Quinta, CA
    Posts
    536

    Default Garmin Synthetic Vision in the Carbon Cub?

    I have a new 2014 Carbon Cub on order (CC316) for delivery on May 29, 2014. Just going through my panel options for the new aircraft. I currently have 2010 Carbon Cub with the Executive GLASS option. Obviously this "old" technology panel is more than enough to drive a Carbon Cub around. But I am looking for some new solutions (and potentially less expensive) for my new Carbon Cub that will add new functionality without giving up current capability.

    A few days ago Garmin introduced a new version (6.1) of Garmin Pilot that now includes Garmin Synthetic Vision (with the GDL 39 3D ADS-B weather, traffic and attitude accessory, Garmin Pilot Synthetic Vision also includes a fully functional HSI in the display). Garmin has a free 30 day trail for this software until March 5. You can evaluate a full featured version of Garmin Pilot on the iPad but you need a GDL 39 3D to evaluate the HSI functionality. It is clear Garmin is hot on the trail of ForeFlight with this latest move.



    I loaded up Garmin Pilot 6.1 on my new Retina iPad Mini yesterday (11 GB download) to test it out. It appears to run smoothly on the new iPad and everything is there (IFR/VFR maps, approach plates, obstacles ect). I took delivery of the first Garmin Perspective installed in a Cirrus TN22 in June of 2008. Have not flown the new version of Garmin Pilot yet but just driving it around on the ground the Synthetic Vision on the iPad seems to be identical to Garmin Perspective that I flew in my Cirrus.

    Below is a rendering I put together of one option I am looking at for my new Carbon Cub panel. This panel is a modified World VFR panel offered by CubCrafters. In place of the Aera 796 I have placed my Retina iPad Mini. Both devices are nearly identical in dimensions, so the fit is perfect. Obviously the functionality is very different with a internet connected full function iPad in place of the Aera 796. Also with iPad Mini you have the option of running other apps like ForeFlight instead of Garmin Pilot, if you like.

    Common to both panels is a new engine monitoring system, the Electronics International CGR-30P. Here is a short video showing the different screens of the CGR-30P. This appears to be a very capable engine monitoring device that fits in a standard 3 1/8" mount.


    What's missing? So far Garmin is not offering any BlueTooth air data computer devices. So there is no separate pitot/static data source available to the iPad to compute things like real time winds aloft in Garmin Pilot. I really like having the winds aloft vector arrow in the CC with my current Executive Panel.

    Got a few weeks to make a final decision on the new panel in CC316. Just tossing around ideas.
    Last edited by turbopilot; 02-26-2014 at 11:43 AM.
    Bob Anderson, CC11-00435, N94RA

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Canyon Country, CA
    Posts
    115

    Default Re: Garmin Synthetic Vision in the Carbon Cub?

    Quote Originally Posted by turbopilot View Post
    I have a new 2014 Carbon Cub on order (CC316) for delivery on May 29, 2014. Just going through my panel options for the new aircraft. I currently have 2010 Carbon Cub with the Executive GLASS option. Obviously this "old" technology panel is more than enough to drive a Carbon Cub around. But I am looking for some new solutions (and potentially less expensive) for my new Carbon Cub that will add new functionality without giving up current capability.
    Bob, have you considered SkyView? Synthetic Vision plus full integrated PFD/MFD functionality.

    My next door hangar neighbor has SkyView in the Harmon Rocket he just finished, and it really is an amazing system. (And an amazing airplane of course.) I have not looked to see if it could be squeezed into a CC panel, but my hunch is it could if you remoted enough things. This would be a whole bunch better than an iPad!
    Chuck Hull
    L70 Agua Dulce, CA

  3. #3
    Senior Member turbopilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    La Quinta, CA
    Posts
    536

    Default Re: Garmin Synthetic Vision in the Carbon Cub?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    Bob, have you considered SkyView? Synthetic Vision plus full integrated PFD/MFD functionality.

    My next door hangar neighbor has SkyView in the Harmon Rocket he just finished, and it really is an amazing system. (And an amazing airplane of course.) I have not looked to see if it could be squeezed into a CC panel, but my hunch is it could if you remoted enough things. This would be a whole bunch better than an iPad!
    I have never seen a SkyView system installed. I have heard it has been installed in a CC. Rumors are the price tag was around $25,000. The problem with all these options is that it is very hard to appreciate the value equation without actually using the systems.

    Have not made any decisions. Just tossing up ideas until I have to make a final choice.

    The way I fly the Carbon Cub an iPad Mini in the World VFR panel would be more than enough for me. But I do want that darn wind vector.
    Bob Anderson, CC11-00435, N94RA

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Canyon Country, CA
    Posts
    115

    Default Re: Garmin Synthetic Vision in the Carbon Cub?

    Quote Originally Posted by turbopilot View Post
    I have never seen a SkyView system installed.
    Are you in SoCal? Come by L70 and take a look at the Harmon Rocket installation. Don't know what it costs, but I don't think anywhere near $25K for a one display system.
    Chuck Hull
    L70 Agua Dulce, CA

  5. #5
    Senior Member Centmont's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Winifred, Montana
    Posts
    257

    Default Re: Garmin Synthetic Vision in the Carbon Cub?

    I can truly appreciate what CubCrafters is going through in considering updates to panels. Each of us apparently wants something different. Personally, my first sport cub panel was basic...until I added a Dynon D-10...got used to having it. Then in the CarbonCub got talked into the Ex. Glass....got used to having it. However, if I had used all the "stuff" on that panel my head would never have looked out of the windshield, but I did really enjoy some of the features and included them in the scan. Like Bob, I'm going through this exercise again for the next plane and would like to get simpler again. It turns out there is "real time" synthetic vision right outside the windows. I would like "attitude" in some simpler panel for that "just in case" event. Bob's solution seems elegant, easy to update, reasonably priced, and you can take it into the tent at night and watch Top Gun..again. Ralph
    Ralph Rogers
    Owner: TheCubWorks
    www.TheCubWorks.com
    CCSS #142 N123MR
    I have always felt the supercub is one thing mankind got right the first time but that there were better materials and methods to build them. CubCrafters products are proof I was right.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Shelby, NC
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: Garmin Synthetic Vision in the Carbon Cub?

    Quote Originally Posted by turbopilot View Post
    I have never seen a SkyView system installed. I have heard it has been installed in a CC. Rumors are the price tag was around $25,000. The problem with all these options is that it is very hard to appreciate the value equation without actually using the systems.

    Have not made any decisions. Just tossing up ideas until I have to make a final choice.

    The way I fly the Carbon Cub an iPad Mini in the World VFR panel would be more than enough for me. But I do want that darn wind vector.
    Bob, I have a 10" Skyview in my CC. I have everything you can get with it including radio, intercom, weather, ADS-B, auto pilot servos, etc. Have a little more than 12 grand in it. Had it in an RV7 before the cub. Can't say enough good stuff about it! You can see in the the builders registry if you are interested.

    Richard Phillips

  7. #7
    Senior Member turbopilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    La Quinta, CA
    Posts
    536

    Default Re: Garmin Synthetic Vision in the Carbon Cub?

    Quote Originally Posted by richphil View Post
    Bob, I have a 10" Skyview in my CC. I have everything you can get with it including radio, intercom, weather, ADS-B, auto pilot servos, etc. Have a little more than 12 grand in it. Had it in an RV7 before the cub. Can't say enough good stuff about it! You can see in the the builders registry if you are interested.

    Richard Phillips
    Thanks Richard. Nice panel. So $12 grand is what all the hardware costs? Here is Richard's link.
    Bob Anderson, CC11-00435, N94RA

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Shelby, NC
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: Garmin Synthetic Vision in the Carbon Cub?

    I will pull my invoices and come up with a figure for as soon as I can.

    Richard

  9. #9
    Senior Member turbopilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    La Quinta, CA
    Posts
    536

    Default Re: Garmin Synthetic Vision in the Carbon Cub?

    Gathering more details around the feasibility of making an iPad Mini Retina swap with the Aera 796 in the World VFR panel option.

    I have confirmed that the CubCrafter's World VFR option uses the AirGizmo GPSMAP 795/796 Panel Dock.



    AirGizmo also makes an iPad Mini Panel Dock. These two docks are virtually the same size. Aera 796 dock is 8"(W) x 6.25"(H) x 2.3"(D) in landscape orientation. The iPad dock is 8"(W) x 6.25"(H) X 1.32"(D) in landscape orientation. So it would appear either mount will fit the 8" cutout.

    I have had no experience with the Aera 796 software but the screen shots suggest a lot of overlap with what I am seeing with Garmin Pilot running on the Retina iPad Mini with the absence of Synthetic Vision on the Aera.

    The differences in price and specifications between the Aera 796 and the Retina iPad Mini are stunning. Area 796 list price is $1,990. Retina iPad Mini with Wi-Fi + Celluar option ranges between $529 (16GB) to $829 (32GB).

    Here are some other comparisons:

    Screen Size: Aera 796 3.6"H x 6.0"W; 7.0" diag / Retina iPad Mini 4.75"(H) x 6.25"W; 7.9" diag
    Screen Resolution: Aera 796 480x800 pixels / Retina iPad Mini 1536x2048 pixels
    GPS: Aera 796 US GPS only* / Retina iPad Mini US GPS + Russian GLONAS GPS

    The GPS difference is of special interest for aviation. I cannot find specific documentation about the GPS chip in the Aera 796 other than it is a "high-sensitivity with WAAS position accuracy". The Retina iPad Mini comes with the new dual mode GPS chip which includes both the US WAAS GPS and Russian GLONAS GPS coverage. Owing to the age of the Aera I think it predates introduction of the dual chip so it is most likely US GPS only. The Retina iPad Mini keeps a GPS signal far longer in fringe conditions since it is calculating position using both satellite systems.

    The only comparison I cannot find so far is the difference in screen brightness between the Aera 796 and Retina iPad Mini. Could be the Aera is better with direct sunlight than the iPad.

    I have been using the Retina iPad Mini since it came out. It is crazy fast. So for less than half the price, the Retina iPad Mini with Garmin Pilot would seem to run circles around the Aera 796 "on paper". All this from someone who has never used the Aera 796.
    Last edited by turbopilot; 02-27-2014 at 10:58 AM.
    Bob Anderson, CC11-00435, N94RA

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Shelby, NC
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: Garmin Synthetic Vision in the Carbon Cub?

    OK, Bob, just added up everything and whole system hardware was $13,377.00 including servos. I have no idea what Cubcrafters would charge to install a system like this. But I am sure it would be a substantial investment. I had to make custom brackets to install these parts. Had to make several harnesses also. Unless it was something you could do yourself, I wouldn't doubt a tab close to $25,000 from them.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •