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Thread: Converting to E-LSA

  1. #21
    Senior Member RanRan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting to E-LSA

    Quote Originally Posted by couleeone View Post
    Please explain?

    Geo
    If you look at the Sport Cub order form - you will see that both the S-LSA and E-LSA certifications can be used for flight training.

    I'm pretty sure that there is a 40 hour testing period for ALL Experimental aircraft before a passenger or co-pilot (or student) is allowed. Correct me if I am wrong on that - but the testing period is mandatory with the certification.

  2. #22
    Senior Member randylervold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting to E-LSA

    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan View Post
    If you look at the Sport Cub order form - you will see that both the S-LSA and E-LSA certifications can be used for flight training.

    I'm pretty sure that there is a 40 hour testing period for ALL Experimental aircraft before a passenger or co-pilot (or student) is allowed. Correct me if I am wrong on that - but the testing period is mandatory with the certification.
    RanRan,

    I think you might be confusing E-LSA with E-AB (Experimental - Amatuer Built). When an SLSA is converted to an ELSA there is no test period required. If any major change is made then there is 5 hour test period which will be detailed in the Operation Limitations. My understanding is that niehter ELSA or EAB can be used for commercial use. There is an exemption that can be applied for to do transition training with an EAB, not sure if there's an equivalent exemption for ELSA.
    Randy Lervold

  3. #23
    Senior Member RanRan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting to E-LSA

    Quote Originally Posted by randylervold View Post
    My understanding is that niehter ELSA or EAB can be used for commercial use.
    That's my understanding as well. Perhaps the Sport Cub form needs an asterisk.

    *Can be used for flight training (because it's a two seater) but cannot be used commercially for flight training.

    i.e. A new owner can pay a flight instructor to train him or anyone he allows using the plane but cannot charge for the rental - if the owner is a flight instructor, he cannot use the plane for training at all.

    Does that sound accurate?
    Last edited by RanRan; 08-09-2010 at 05:10 AM.

  4. #24
    Junior Member mryakima's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting to E-LSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilawt View Post
    I've been toying with the idea of converting my Sport Cub S2 to E-LSA.
    Is there anything I can do with my airplane now that I won't be able to do if it is E-LSA?
    Thanks.
    Here is a limitation that I worry about when I consider an experimental or homebuilt. Although this reg may be ignored by most pilots, I think it is important to know. Or does it apply at all? (I'm a student pilot)

    The current regulation (Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 91, section 91.319(c)) states, "Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator in special operating limitations, no person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental certificate over a densely populated area or in a congested airway."

    This section (91.319(c)) provides that no person may operate an experimental aircraft over densely populated areas and in congested airways unless the Administrator issues special operating limitations. The Administrator may in addition, authorize takeoffs and landings for particular aircraft over densely populated areas or in congested airways, if the authorization lists terms and conditions in the interest of safety in air commerce.
    Scott R a y
    Yakima, WA

    .............................


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  5. #25
    Member TheCubWorks's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Converting to E-LSA

    I often get that question. The answer, unanimously, from the FAA and my DAR is "before you enter said air space you must request "Denver approach EXPERIMENTAL 945PL can I do XXXXXX to make my life easier?"
    At the time they accept you into their airspace you WILL do what they tell you to do and they are responsible and take precedence over your P haze II ops limits

    This is why I have flown one of my Experimental aircraft in just about every piece of airspace in the lower 48. AND I haven,t been taken to task on the population clause by a single controller.

    HOWEVER: if you violate airspace maliciously this will be one of the line items of charges against you.
    Last edited by couleeone; 08-14-2010 at 04:14 PM.

  6. #26
    Senior Member randylervold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting to E-LSA

    Scott, the Operating Limitations for an experimental aircraft are the prevailing rule. Operating Limitations are determined by the DAR that does the certification and issues all the docs. A more common phrase in Operating Limitations is...
    6. This aircraft is prohibited from operating in congested airways or over densely populated areas unless directed by air traffic control, or unless sufficient altitude is maintained to effect a safe emergency landing in the event of a power unit failure, without hazard to persons or property on the ground.
    In practical application isn't any parking lot suitable for an emergency landing? Also in the real world there are nearly 30,000 experimental aircraft now in the fleet and they fly everywhere from the busiest airspace on down. I've personally flown my homebuilt RVs through various sections of L.A. airspace with no problem.
    Randy Lervold

  7. #27
    Senior Member RanRan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting to E-LSA

    Quote Originally Posted by randylervold View Post
    6. This aircraft is prohibited from operating in congested airways or over densely populated areas unless directed by air traffic control, or unless sufficient altitude is maintained to effect a safe emergency landing in the event of a power unit failure, without hazard to persons or property on the ground.
    Minimum 1000 feet over the city (and structures) and 500 feet over the country-side. A rule superseded by another rule. i.e. Not a real limitation.

    Here's a great article on the S-LSA - E-LSA and Am-Build differences and making the switch for your S-LSA to E-LSA. I believe it's all still pertinent info.

    http://www.kitplanes.com/sportplanes/0505-3740.pdf
    Last edited by RanRan; 08-14-2010 at 06:34 PM.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Converting to E-LSA

    I did a search and this post seems to be relatively comprehensive on Converting to E-LSA.

    The original poster asked about affecting the resale value...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilawt View Post
    I've been toying with the idea of converting my Sport Cub S2 to E-LSA.
    ...
    Does it affect the resale value?

    Thanks.
    Any thoughts on resale value by those who have "been there, done that"?

    Is it possible to convert an E-LSA back to S-LSA by returning it to pre E-LSA configuration and getting a DAR to sign it off?

    Thank you, Rob

  9. #29
    Member marcusadolfsson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Converting to E-LSA

    I recently converted my Carbon Cub from SLSA to ELSA, for all of the benefits mentioned earlier in this thread.

    The conversion needs to be done by a DAR with "Function 47" rights, you can find an up-to-date list here: http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviat...RDirectory.pdf

    I selected Michael Huffman from Lawrenceville, GA (http://www.sportaviationspecialties.com/) as I read good things about him online, and it was a fairly short flight from Northern Florida.

    Michael requested copies of the following documents in advance:


    • Registration certificate - FAA Form 8050-3
    • Airworthiness certificate - FAA Form 8130-7
    • Operating limitations (The official FAA-issued Operating Limitations is a 2-3 page 8-1/2 x 11 document on FAA letterhead stationery)
    • Statement of compliance - FAA Form 8130-15—issued by Cubcrafters when the aircraft was originally certificated as an SLSA
    • Weight and balance report
    • All pages from your airframe logbook, engine logbook, and propeller logbook. These will need to show that the airplane has had an annual condition inspection within the previous 12 months.
    • Any other records that show compliance with Cubcrafters safety directives or FAA airworthiness directives
    • Photos of the aircraft that show the general configuration, the N-number, and a closeup of the dataplate
    • Confirm that you have made no modifications to the aircraft that were not specifically approved in writing by Cubcrafters, and
    • That you have the correct Cubcrafters pilot operating handbook (which should include a section called the Flight Training Supplement), maintenance manual, and any other documents provided by Cubcrafters. I don’t need you to send copies of these, but will want you to bring them on your certification visit.


    I couldn't find the Original Operating limitations or the statement of compliance (FAA Form 8130-15), but Jeff at CubCrafters was able to email me a copy of both. I also ordered an EXPERIMENTAL placard that goes in the door (replaces the LIGHTSPORT sticker) and a new passenger warning placard.

    After Michael reviewed the documents and arranged the conversion with his FAA contacts, I flew up to Georgia for the physical inspection of the plane. Two hours and $500 later I flew back home with a new Airworthiness Certificate and Operating Limitations.

    Attachment 3611Attachment 3612
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by marcusadolfsson; 02-14-2015 at 10:38 AM.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Converting to E-LSA

    For those in North Carolina and surrounding areas, I did the same thing with my Sportcub at Woods Aviation near Goldsboro. Bob Woods a very experienced & well known re-builder of antique aircraft & DAR. It took about 4 hours and $350 and I came home with an experimental aircraft.
    • Woods Aviation Inc.
    • Address 676 Crows Foot Rd., 28365 Mt. Olive
    • Hours
    • Mon - Fri: 8:00 am - 5:00 pm
    • Short Description We specialize in the restoration of vintage aircraft and general maint. of private aircraft.

      Currently looking for and accepting new projects. We will also load and transport the aircraft if needed.

      Open Mon. - Fri. 8am - 5pm
      919-581-0640
    • Phone 919-689-3768
    Last edited by ncshp; 02-14-2015 at 07:44 PM.

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